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by hhw 4219 days ago
There was a discussion about this on the OpenBSD misc mailing archives back in 2012: http://marc.info/?t=133961305400003&r=1&w=2

Theo's initial response to the thread, which may help illuminate the situation, was:

"Except for the fact that it is bullshit.

They started the fork because they got kicked out because one developer (Marco) hired 5 other developers for his startup company, and attempted to hire around 10 other developers in a sneaky and underhanded way. They were told, oh i forget they were "asked", to not tell anyone else in OpenBSD that this was happening, probably because people "including Theo" would be upset.

Funny thing is, I've never been upset about the 20+ OpenBSD and ex-OpenBSD developers who now work for google.

Previously, many of those developers were in critical positions in the development team. As they were suddenly hired with such terms and conditions, they became more scarce in OpenBSD -- perhaps because they suddenly got real busy with work, but also to avoid telling others that this was happening. Various projects lagged. To avoid telling a lie, they instead chose to not tell the truth. It had effects. It was dishonest of them to not tell their co-developers that they were creating vacuums in the development process.

So because of those decisions, they are now gone from OpenBSD. And now they miss it. So now, all these guys who work for the same company have started a fork. And it is directed by the guy who hired them in the first place.

From where I stand, that is the truth.

Yet none of that is in that article, because the truth hurts, doesn't it guys?"

3 comments

I don't like that this gossip thread from a few years ago is at the top. People come to Hackernews for entertainment (including me), but I still don't like it. Mainly I'm here so I can learn things, and see what other people are doing. The gossip side of things is sort of annoying.

It's much more interesting to compare the development process of the groups, and how the two groups will help each other.

I always thought if OpenBSD had modern development tools and processes they would do really well, but unfortunately there are too many risks. How they're doing it works well for them already. But perhaps this situation with another group working in a different way better again. Since this project can experiment, and anything that is proven can be taken on by OpenBSD.

A thread with some of the people most directly involved, including OpenBSD's founder, on how the fork happened is as relevant to the subject at hand as it gets. Not sure why you view it as gossip. It also directly answers your question on how the two groups will help each other i.e. not much at all.
> It also directly answers your question on how the two groups will help each other i.e. not much at all.

Hopefully the bitterness surrounding the fork's birth will eventually wash away and the people involved just look at the benefits. And it's not true that the two groups aren't helping each other. Some code does flow between OpenBSD and Bitrig, just as it does between OpenBSD and NetBSD. And there are people who are involved in both, and communicating with developers from both projects.

> I always thought if OpenBSD had modern development tools and processes

I just don't understand this attitude. Git and Clang or GCC 4.bleedingedge.something don't write the code for you. Is having to commit to an older VCS really that high a barrier to entry for developers? Because if it is, that makes me suspicious of their skills and focus.

Read past that message to get to where the thread turns into a how to learn C discussion with a side helping of perl.
I don't know what's worse: Theo taking a curse-laden, insult dump on everyone who opposes him, or the faithful who spread it around.
Theo's thoughts do pass through a dick-filter, there is no denying that, but he is almost always right in what he is saying.

As far as Bitrig is concerned, I don't see the point in it. The FAQ doesn't say anything that makes me want to try it and, although they say they want to support only modern systems, it seems to me that what they are really doing is limiting themselves to what LLVM supports.

This is a problem, because what makes OpenBSD so smooth is testing on the weird legacy architectures like VAX. With a number of the changes on their roadmap I wonder if maybe adopting DragonflyBSD or FreeBSD may have been simpler.
>Theo taking a curse-laden, insult dump on everyone who opposes him

Could you point me to the part where that happened? I thought I read the whole thing but I can't seem to find anything like that.

You mean like Linus?