[req2]

Too bad you have your own false certainty.

I'll point out that patio11's bingo card creator gets more conversions for every single order button he's added, even as they get to the point where they're "above the fold". Your own criticism is much too 'black and white', but I'd say that it is also MYOPIC!

[ahoyhere]

How do you figure?

I never said that people had to do it my way, or any way at all.

I said that Nielsen doesn't discuss cases that run counter to his recommendations, and I provided one to prove my point.

As for patio11, I'm happy for him. But let's not get talking about local maximums.

[req2]

I figure because you roundly condemn Nielsen, providing but a single nebulous example that is debunked by patio11's experience.

[ahoyhere]

I never said that the above-the-fold findings aren't true in many cases. Never!

In fact, I know they are true... in many cases.

However, there are quite a few cases where they are not true at all. For example, direct-marketing type sales letters, which work just as well on the internet.

Which is, again, all I said. Nielsen acts as if everything he says is universally applicable, but there are quite a lot of counter-examples that also work exceedingly well. Ergo the findings are not universally applicable.

HN is supposed to be a bastion of scientific thought. What is it about my argument -- that he leaves out evidence -- that is so hard to understand?

[req2]

The fact that your counterexample doesn't work- patio11 has shown that his direct-marketing type sales letter gets more conversions with each additional 'above the fold' actionable element.

It's also an unusual onus to expect him to update his past writings when future evidence that isn't his to display suggests anything other than what he has found.