[lberlin]

The main difference I see between bikes/pedestrians and cars/motorcycles is that there is minimal cost/effort to reverse and change your mind. So, on a bike or on foot, you can jaywalk or run a red light by slowly peeking out and making sure it's safe. If someone with the right of way is coming, you can simple stop and let them by. You absolutely can't do that with a car or motorcycle.

My general rule, as both biker and pedestrian, is to not get in the way of others who have the right of way. They shouldn't have to change course or worry about you. Most pedestrians (and plenty bikers too) are absolutely clueluess though. They don't look for bike lanes, they walk in the bikelanes, they jaywalk without looking if a bike (or car) is coming, they open car doors without looking, etc. I think this frustrates a lot of bikers, so they end up not caring and trying to ride through a crosswalk full of pedestrians and doing other asshole things, but I don't think that's the norm.

As a reasonable adult, I know I shouldn't jaywalk or run a red light because they are rules, but I have confidence via my senses that I can do that with absolute safety and respect for myself and others.

[jghn]

"is to not get in the way of others who have the right of way"

IMO that should be the rule for everyone :) The point I was trying to make was that often in these sorts of debates I see a lot of finger pointing between drivers & cyclists, with the cyclists saying, "Yeah, but we're more vulnerable - you all need to be more careful and allow us to do XYZ". But then they ignore that there's a third party who is even more vulnerable and often the behavior the cyclists propose increases danger to that third party.

"that I can do that with absolute safety and respect for myself and others."

As I said elsewhere in this thread, I'm AOK with people doing whatever they like in terms of traffic rules as long as it has zero impact on other people. Running red lights, jaywalking, etc - if no one is around, who cares? I jaywalk multiple times a day around the corner from my house - I live just off a busy main drag with very few crosswalks, so I just wait until there's a massive gap in the traffic on both sides and run across. OTOH I see people crossing that street all the time by just walking out and holding their hands up to signal to drivers that they should stop ... sorry, but no.

[crowding]

Sorry, but yes. In my state, crosswalks are legally defined to exist at every street corner whether or not they are painted lines. Furthermore, the obligation of drivers to yield to pedestrians in crosswalks starts when they step into the street and not a moment before. (Standing on the sidewalk means nothing even if there is a painted crosswalk). Stepping out into a safe gap in the curbside lane and expecting traffic to stop is legally prescribed behavior and is the behavior drivers should expect. And pedestrians should encourage drivers to expect that behavior by actually behaving that way.