[s3nnyy]

Happiness-wise South Korea ranks 41. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report).

Here in Switzerland (3rd in happiness) it is not unusual that people are employed only 3-4 days / week and still make enough money to live well. I don't know of any other country where this is commonplace.

(Full disclosure: If you're from the EU and looking for a tech-job over here, I'd be happy to help out).

[_delirium]

It's recently also becoming common in Denmark to work only a few days a week, especially in tech. Working 2-4 days/week at a "regular" tech job is a popular way to fund your startup. Usually it's fairly linear, e.g. you can negotiate to work 75% time for 75% pay. The fact that companies don't typically provide benefits other than pay and pension contribution helps, I think. I have friends in the U.S. who are worried about going from "full-time" to "part-time" status, because they'd lose things like healthcare coverage, childcare, maternity/paternity leave, etc. But full-time vs. part-time doesn't matter as much when the social system is decoupled from employment.

[dirktheman]

Same here at the number 4 on the list... I work 4 days a week, my wife works 3. My employer also works 4.

My day off is awesome, and accounts for a lot of my happiness. And the happiness of my kids, I'm sure!

US may be the leading in economy, but we (Northern and Western Europe) are way ahead of you guys when it comes to a healthy work-life balance...

[ams6110]

Isn't it all very individual though? What if someone derives happiness and satisfaction from working? Should they be prohibited from working more than a set number of days/hours per week?

[SonicSoul]

I agree. most of my long hours are self imposed. Often time it's fun to finish things, or take longer to do something in the best way possible (vs rush through during normal hours), and have a certain number of accomplishments in a year.

However I understand that other people may feel pressure to do the same even thought they value family life more. Some employers probably don't do a great job in encouraging the family life and set out goals that require extra hours to complete (over 40 hr work week), which is what such a regulation may aim to alleviate. In practice I think it will cause more harm by dabbling in company culture.

[crpatino]

You can always work from home if it is your fancy.

It sucks if your employer owns whatever you do offsite, though. Specially if they do not pay overtime.

You see... do not attribute to sloth that which can be explained by envy.

[s3nnyy]

Maybe also that is why big things come from the US? True pain-points are more obvious in a place where one is not pampered and protected by society too much?

[_dark_matter_]

Talk about jumping to conclusions. This is both a gross misunderstanding of their culture and government, as well as unsubstantiated claims of causation.

[s3nnyy]

I am not sure, if I can confirm this, but I find this really amusing:

"If Hewlett and Packard tried running an electronics company out of their garage in Switzerland, the old lady next door would report them to the municipal authorities."

http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html

(I guess, PG visited Switzerland, while he was an exchange student in Italy.)

[rasur]

Or out of their Tiefgarage - can you imagine the fun ;)

[s3nnyy]

Maybe it did not came across because I am not a native speaker. I meant something along the lines what PG is pointing out in the "Why startups condense in America" essay:

"The problem in more traditional places like Europe [...] is the attitude they reflect: that an employee is a kind of servant, whom the employer has a duty to protect. It used to be that way in America too. In 1970 you were still supposed to get a job with a big company, for whom ideally you'd work your whole career. In return the company would take care of you: they'd try not to fire you, cover your medical expenses, and support you in old age.

Gradually employment has been shedding such paternalistic overtones and becoming simply an economic exchange. But the importance of the new model is not just that it makes it easier for startups to grow. More important, I think, is that it it makes it easier for people to start startups."

A major manager of T-Mobile in Germany was in the news when he pointed out what PG is talking about. "Generation Y" in Germany prefers to work for BMW until they retire instead of starting something on their own. According to this manager, Germany is stagnating. We're neither cheaper than China nor more innovative than the US, because young people don't and don't have to take risks. (http://huffingtonpost.de/2014/08/11/thomas-sattelberger-gene...)

[drzaiusapelord]

Low regulatory environments with lot of capital and a motivated work force usually equals success. This is why you're on HN and I'm not on swiss-tech-news.com.

[6t6t6]

Probably, the point is that European and USA folks have different ways to measure success.

I guess that for a Scandinavian or a Swiss guy, working 60 hours a week, and not being able to see their kids grow up, would be a personal failure. No matter how many sport cars he owns.

[ahomescu1]

I think he/she means that companies like Google, Apple and Tesla are all US-based, not to mention crazy/niche stuff like Oculus. Europe-based high-profile tech companies (like Nokia and Skype) seem more like outliers than the norm. The US seems to be the "technology king", so to say (disclaimer: I'm not an American).

[saraid216]

The logic of this falls apart the moment you take it literally:

I have a baseball bat. I can make you bleed innovation.

And when you can't take it literally, you're missing something significant in the claim.

[mathattack]

I think working hours is just a symptom. Look at the funnel... Korean kids spend an ungodly amount of time in class and doing test prep. Putting a cosmetic limit to the amount of hours worked doesn't change society on it's own.

[s3nnyy]

Yet, South Korea ranks high for a First-World-Country in "increase in happiness".

If one sorts "World Happiness Report" according to "change in happiness 2005-2007", the top countries are mostly from the second- or third-world with the exception of South Korea.

[aetherson]

I think that the parsimonious explanation for that is that Korea's wealth per capita has exploded in the late 20th and early 21st Century.

[hobo_mark]

Excuse me? I work in CH and I have never heard of that, in fact it's not unheard of to have urgent work to be done on a saturday or sunday 'for free'.

[s3nnyy]

The most curios job-offer I found recently is this: "Head of Development 20%" (means 1 day per week of work only): http://mindband.ch/were-hiring-junior-head-development-20

[foxpc]

I'd think that Switzerland is one of the hardest countries to move to because of all the prices. Starting to live there should be VERY expensive. I wonder if anyone's had to go through that experience?

P.S. I'd love to live in Switzerland, being in the somewhat-neutral land where you're not that threatened by Russia or other things that might make your days miserable :|

[s3nnyy]

Actually, I try blogging about my experience moving here. You can read a first draft here: http://goo.gl/EIX4UX.

Things are way cheaper than I thought, considering the salaries. As a Python entry-level developer who has to be pampered I make around 5000 Euro net-salary at a no-name SMB. I could make 10%-15% more at a bank doing Java.

The bottom-line is that I can save 4000,- Euro each month, because I spend only 1000 Euro on accommodation and food. In only one year, I will be able to buy a two-room apartment in a German town (where I like to hangout on weekends), without taking a mortgage...

[foxpc]

That was an interesting read, thanks! Sounds like the country is amazing and giving.

I'll have dreams about it tonight ;)

[ttty]

Check out my blog, what jobs do you have? :) http://webdesignporto.com/

[spindritf]

If you're from the EU and looking for a tech-job over here, I'd be happy to help out

How important is it to speak German?

[s3nnyy]

You'd be fine. Everything here (products etc.) have to be in at least two languages. In a city like Zurich, you'd get along very well in English only. Also, there are many companies around that have English as their "company language" (for instance Google) .

Btw. Google-Maps was largely developed by Zooglers (Google's Zurich office). They call it also "the real mountain-view".

[fapjacks]

My ancestors are Swiss, and I have seriously considered moving back. :)

[grecy]

At the very least, start the paperwork now to get your citizenship and passport. It only costs a few hundred dollars, and it's like having an ace up your sleeve.

You might never use it, but the beauty is it's there if you want it.

(I recently did ~18 months of paperwork to get my Polish citizenship and passport. I've never been to Europe, and really don't know if I ever will. But 10 years from now if I want to move there, I can)

[fapjacks]

I am VERY interested in what you are proposing, but I have no idea where to get more information. Can you please provide me with a couple of links you found useful in doing this?

[grecy]

It all depends on you and your family.

Find out where your relatives are from (which countries), then start investigating the citizenship requirements for those countries. Your embassy for that country will likely even have a "citizenship application" section on their website that lays out exactly what you need and how to go about applying.

In my case, Poland is a country that says you have the right to be a citizen if one of your parents is a citizen. Irrelevant that I've never been there, don't speak the language, etc. etc.

My grandfather was born there and was a citizen before he passed away, so I pressured my Dad endlessly until he got his Polish citizenship (I did half the paperwork for him because he was being lazy....).. then once he had his citizenship I could go ahead and apply for mine.

Obviously every country is going to be different, so it depends on where your relatives are from, and what the citizenship requirements for that country actually are.

Also note if you're in the US, I think the US doesn't allow you to have citizenship from another country (don't quote me on that, I'm not a US citizen - well actually, it looks really strange[1]. I have no idea.)

[1] http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/english/legal-conside...

[fapjacks]

Okay, thank you for the clarification. I knew this information previously, I was just hoping you knew of something I didn't. My ancestors came from Switzerland many years ago and using this sort of method wouldn't work for me. I have heard that in Switzerland it is relatively difficult to get citizenship, as I've been a few times and asked around while visiting.

I do know for certain (my wife is Swedish and American) that you are allowed at least dual citizenship as long as you don't present yourself at the border with your passport issued by another country. There are several technicalities which "rescind" your American citizenship, but they mostly are not enforced unless you make a big deal out of it (e.g. turning in your passport to an overseas American embassy and declaring that you are no longer a citizen), but presenting at the border your passport issued by another country has lately been interpreted to mean that you are declaring yourself citizen of that nation. IANAL but many of these kinds of things are not black-and-white and depend largely upon the border agent which you are dealing with.

Again thanks for your reply!

[grecy]

Can you get Swedish citizenship through your wife?

I'd be surprised if the two of you can't go and live there together and after a while I expect you'd be eligible to apply...