[droopybuns]

>We need to stop publishing stuff over HTTP. Period.

This is a short sighted solution. If you go this route, then you are constraining authentication to the client. Users always choose bad passwords, so we are stuck.

In mobile networks, you have the network in a position to strongly authenticate the subscriber, without necessitating the weaknesses that can come with bad passwords.

I generally agree that TLS is desirable, but if we go all in, there are interesting and potentially more desirable alternatives that are lost.

[IgorPartola]

FWIW, this is the route we are already going with HTTP/2: as implemented SPDY pretty much requires encryption.

Also, while mobile networks can authenticate my mobile phone and the hops from my phone to their edge router can be "trusted" (don't forget that the NSA is snooping here), I want end to end encryption. I want to know that the only two entities able to send/receive data are the site I'm trying to talk to and myself.

Let's think about it this way: in 2014 I propose a new protocol and implementation where you run a program on your device and I push arbitrary code to it. I also include code from advertisers, partners, third party affiliates, and my buddy Dave. All of this is done over clear text with no authentication, no authorization, no proof of identity or ownership, and over unsecured networks. Here's the link to the installer :) Yeah, I wouldn't sign up for that either.

[droopybuns]

I understand your argument. Barring some of the hyperbole of your worst case scenario, I totally get it.

In my opinion the rationality of your perspective is one of the most damaging consequences of the NSA's behavior.

Attacking the client is easy for both hackers and nation states. Moving the control to infrastructure tends to cut out whole swaths of script kiddies. There are important scenarios where this makes a ton of sense (m2m, iot, many mobile apps) and those assholes have just burned everyone's trust to the point that nascent solutions are no longer viable.

[IgorPartola]

I am not quite sure what you are saying. Is it that it is in fact better to allow HTTP to exist vs providing HTTPS backed by some type of trusted infrastructure? Or is it that you are saying that we can build a brand new from scratch solution and need to fix the existing system somehow?

[droopybuns]

It's better to allow http to exist.

There is an opportunity for new authentication approaches that can't exist in a TLS-everywhere world.

I'm looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Bootstrapping_Architect... in particular.