[vorg]

pg writes about macros as the top of the blub ladder whereas you mention compile-time type systems, but I'd say it isn't a ladder but a twin-peaked hill, i.e. strongly-typed lazy functional code (e.g. Haskell) and dynamically-typed variadic homoiconic code (Lisp). They have an "impedance mismatch" such that they don't inter-translate very well, unless they use clunky addons like Template Haskell macros or Typed Clojure annotations. The pure form of each language, however, is based on two mutually exclusive foundations, i.e. strongly typed auto-curried parameters vs variadic untyped macro parameters.

The strong typing and lazy evaluation of Haskell makes it easy for functions to take only one argument at a time. Although a function could take a tuple parameter, it is usually rewritten to take each component of the tuple as a separate parameter, which makes the strong typing and built-in currying simple, higher structures like monads possible, and a syntax to suit this style. Lisp functions and macros, on the other hand, must be variadic to enable the homoiconicity of the language. It's therefore much more difficult for parameters to be typed, or to curry them. The syntax requires explicit visual nesting.

The poster child of each style, monads and macros, are thus two peaks in language abstraction simply because of these different required foundations of each, and if you, lmm, have achieved Haskell-style enlightenment, then dynamic variadic homoiconic languages are your blub.

[lmm]

I use scala so I have both (somewhat clunky) macros and types. I am not unaware of the costs of clunkiness or the merits of the lisp approach, and I have not stopped looking for a language that can combine both advantages - in contrast to pg, who seems to dismiss the value of strong types without ever having used them seriously.

[AnimalMuppet]

You're right, but don't assume that there are only two peaks. That's making the same mistake you're arguing against.