[unknownBits]

Money is the most tricky thing men will ever face. Not talking about extreme poverty here, the following is what I've learned:

More money leads in almost all people to artificial value, short term superficial happiness, degradation of the soul. On the outside it looks great and shiny, but on the inside the soul starves and craves true happiness. Unfortunately, most rich people react unconsciously by spending more and more, in a desperate effort to fill the ever growing gap.

Longer term less money creates in almost all people higher valuation of the most simple and basic things, which translates to true happiness for the soul. Less money can restore happiness if people are willing.

But there is of course a lot more affected by the money in our lives, especially the ego. A rich men easily thinks he is really someone, a 'great' man, special, gifted, etc.. The poor man will most often struggle with the opposite thoughts and feelings, while in the end it's all false.

If I ever again have quite some money to spend, I'll be very vigilant, you'll see me desperately trying to hold myself back. Never trade your soul for money (or power) is my advice. And if you have a lot of it, use a substantial part to help poor children for example, give them food, education, that will create you some ever lasting happiness, at least, if you can hold yourself back from growing your ego on that.

[clavalle]

>More money leads in almost all people to artificial value, short term superficial happiness, degradation of the soul.

I could not disagree more. In the vast majority of cases, money leads to less misery. Then you just lead your life without the obsessive material thoughts so many struggle with.

I do agree with your last point, though, that once you reach a certain level of stability, you should focus on either reducing other people's misery if you have the power to do so or creating things (either yourself or by proxy) that wouldn't exist in the world without your help.

[cearl]

Eh I definitely would agree with his point, everyone I know who has a net worth > 100 million USD is absolutely miserable. At that point I've noticed what those people want is a real human connection, which is impossible if others are aware of your wealth.

[clavalle]

It's tricky, no doubt about that (I am not worth nearly that much but members of my family and some friends are fairly far north of that).

Family first. No matter what, your lasting real human connections are your family. If you have a clear policy for when and how you will help people out, this can go a lot smoother. My grandparents, for example; They will help with education and medical expenses directly -- which is to say you can ask for help if you need it without looking like an idiot. Otherwise, if they are interested in something you are doing or want to help out in some other way, they will offer. If they don't offer you don't ask. Some families have a more liberal policies that seem to work for them but my family is pretty large and everyone knows what everyone else is doing so this works for us.

Second, hang out with other wealthy people. If everyone has enough and are dealing with the same issues, they are less likely to focus on the money and more likely to focus on the person.

Third, there are people who are not wealthy that just don't care that much about money. If you find them and like them, keep them around (this is where things can get tricky).

I've found that most of these 'hangers on' problems are self made. A lot of wealthy people are busy and will pay to keep people they like in their life -- they are used to using money as a proxy for time and it starts bleeding into parts that maybe it shouldn't. That's when people's feelings get hurt, despite best intentions, and those real human connections evaporate, sometimes very painfully. But as long as people don't tiptoe around issues these things can be handled.

[lucidrains]

Family first... unless if your family is that wealthy, materialistic, dysfunctional, and soulless like mine (and yes, they were unhappy, for those curious, not that anyone would change anyone's stance towards money anyways).

After growing up in that environment, I knew money wasn't the answer. Instead, I placed my happiness in learning, helping others, and doing what I believed in. Couldn't be happier now!

[BrainInAJar]

> Family first. No matter what, your lasting real human connections are your family.

For a lot of people those lasting connections are closer to lasting scars.

[dashboardfront]

It seems like more common is to start obsessing about how to retain your wealth, pass it on, grow a fortune, leave a legacy, etc. You replace one obsession with another, and that's really not surprising. An obsessive person will always find something to obsess about. Money isn't going to fix a poor perspective on life.

[jmagoon]

It's strange to me that people think having or not having money is directly tied to obsessing over money. These are two separate things that aren't actually connected--the number in your bank account and the state of your mind.

You can have $1bn and be totally miserable and miserly, you can have .15 and be generous and happy, and vice versa.

[downandout]

>you can have .15 and be generous and happy

On what planet? You aren't going to be happy begging for food, walking everywhere you go, having no place to shower or sleep, not having clothes, etc. Certainly, each extra dollar gives you less marginal happiness as you move up the net worth scale into the tens and hundreds of millions of dollars. But if you aren't able to meet a certain reasonable minimum standard of living, you will be absolutely miserable.

[BrokenEnso]

"if you aren't able to meet a certain reasonable minimum standard of living, you will be absolutely miserable."

For some people their minimum standard of living dose not require money. Buddhist monks[1] come to mind. There are also people that simply want to live away from society and thus have no real need for money.

[1] http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhistworld/layguide.h...

[freshhawk]

I think the discussion was assuming you didn't have someone taking care of your material needs for you, like a monastery or a parent.

[nmcfarl]

I know people who have lived off the grid (or on a boat), without a paying job, happily. It does get wearing, and people don't seem to do it for too long - but that can be years.

(To give some examples of lifestyles that do not require income, nor external people paying for things.)

[ethbro]

With the caveat that, in situations of poverty below a certain level requires giving money more consideration.

If you have $100 in the bank on a good day, then your trips to the grocery store play out a lot differently than someone who has even $1,000 in the bank.

[angersock]

When you're starving, the difference between $1bn and .15 is pretty fucking acute. Just sayin'.

[zo1]

I thought he meant 0.15 Billion, not 15c. Or am I missing something?

[careersuicide]

>More money leads in almost all people to artificial value, short term superficial happiness, degradation of the soul.

>Longer term less money creates in almost all people higher valuation of the most simple and basic things, which translates to true happiness for the soul.

Having been dead broke, severely underemployed while freelancing, and in a position where I would have been homeless were it not for my amazing girlfriend I can't help but feel a visceral amount of disagreement with this sentiment. Not having money is miserable. Currently I am pretty well off (greater than 75th percentile in the US) and the change in my life that I can directly attribute to having more money is astonishing. Placing a high value on basic things doesn't lead to happiness. It leads to stress, worry, sadness, self loathing, and worst of all envy. And if you have kids I can't even imagine the amount of guilt one might feel if you can't provide for them.

If you go to the grocery store and agonize over every item you place in your cart because not doing so means you might not be able to pay your rent there's almost no way you're going to have the will and the energy left at the end of the day to really enjoy the things that matter in life. It's just too draining and has a real opportunity cost. That's not placing a higher value on basic things, that's putting on blinders and only focusing on your immediate future.

[bostonvaulter2]

You seem to have missed the the clarification in the beginning of the post: "Not talking about extreme poverty here"

[agumonkey]

I can feel this in other domains too: relationships (short term, hormonal, struggle-free), knowledge (web era, ease of access, no deep integration, no effort into reaching, organizing, interpreting).

There's a subtle paradox in ourselves for we crave easiness when I believe what we need is to learn how to abstract over complexity.

[penguindev]

>If I ever again have quite some money to spend

Sounds like voice of experience from both sides... ?

[sgt101]

hmmm - you're not married are you?