[wvenable]

I had a similar experience with my Asus Zenbook Prime ultrabook.

I noticed that the very loud fan was running a lot faster and more frequently than it should. I checked the power settings and minimum processor state was 100%. I changed it to a more reasonable number and all was good. But 10-15 minutes later the fan would come back on full blast because that setting has been reverted back to 100%! Every time I reset it, some time later it go back to 100%.

I'm not one to leave something like that alone and after a lot of searching the internet and applying updates I found that someone else had discovered the cause. The stock trackpad driver was responsible for constantly changing that power setting!! I found a different version for another laptop and that fixed it.

But just imagine how many people that own this exact laptop and it's always hot and gets terrible battery life. All that power management technology and passive cooling completely wasted because of one driver.

[cnvogel]

"our driver has a race condition which makes the track pad lock up sometimes, but it only happens when the computer is in powersave. We either need 5 man years to put proper locking of data structures in our horrible spaghetti code , or let Bob's nephew copy and paste this code from the Internet that overrides the windows power profile every 5 minutes "

[userbinator]

trackpad driver

Quick Google brought me here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/asus/761664-asus-support-why...

It seems like the root of the problem is that their software stack is so inefficient that they have to set the CPU speed all the way to max in order to scroll without any lag... yet another point of evidence that the faster the hardware gets, the more inefficient the majority of software becomes.

[krick]

Discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8546702

[nikanj]

I should start an online collection of stories like this, so I could refer people to it when they complain about Apple hardware being overpriced and/or only bought by idiots.

[xtrumanx]

As one of those people who believe Apple's hardware is overpriced, this story doesn't change my opinion on Apple's hardware.

I recognize the quality in Apple's devices but I believe the price point is way higher than the extra quality found in their products.

I've even recommended a MacBook to someone recently. Mainly for 2 reasons; their needs aligned with what the MacBook Pro would provide them with and they weren't the one paying for it.

[zaroth]

I guess it comes down to how much you enjoy tearing your hair out fixing other peoples bugs or dealing with their crappy hardware.

I've used a 2010 MBA running OS X and Win 7 for the last 4 years. I max'ed out its specs back then and paid about $2k, including an Apple Care warranty which has since expired unused. I've had at least half a dozen Thinkpads before this, and none of them ever came close to surviving this long. My first Thinkpad was a 600, followed by a T20, etc. My last Thinkpad, a T410s, lasted less than 13 months before the LCD failed, same as a dozen others just like it around the office purchased around the same time. That's when I bought the MBA on my own dime.

Part of it is this MBA hit a sweet spot in the upgrade cycle where SSD/CPU/RAM has proven good enough to keep for 4 years, and really shows little signs of slowing for most workloads, and could keep going strong for several years longer.

But the physical hardware has held up astonishingly well. It's the most stable PC running Windows I've ever had. Thinking back on it... I don't think it has EVER blue screened, and I never reboot it except for critical updates.

The only gripe I have with the hardware is the Windows BootCamp driver for the combined mic/headphone jack doesn't switch the mic on when you plug in a proper headset, so it's stuck using the internal mic. But the built-in mic is so good, I've never bothered buying the $20 USB mic to workaround the issue.

It would be hard to tally the number of hours saved on NOT having to upgrade hardware, NOT having to replaced failed components, and NOT struggling with general driver instability and blue screens the last 4 years. This laptop has paid for itself many, many times over. Given the success I've had with the MBA, personally, when I do finally break down and buy another machine, it would be another MBA without a moments hesitation over Apple's 40% gross margin.

[mfisher87]

Not to mention putting together a collection of stories like this would give Apple fans a fallacious reference for why everyone should "just get a mac". Sorry, if a Mac doesn't fit my needs, I'm going to use a normal personal computer, not a walled garden. Doesn't matter how many obstacles I need to get through if I need a real personal computer, not someone else's ecosystem.

[nmjohn]

I'm curious what needs can't be met by using a mac.

My desktop machine runs linux - currently it's ubuntu, but it over the last ~6 years it's also been centos, debian, and arch. I love linux.

Two weeks ago a started a new job and got a macbook pro. I love it - and am completely surprised by it.

I have not run into a single thing that I could do on linux I can't do on osx.

[vetinari]

Oh, it will come.

The first weeks are fine. But in time, you will find little things, that will annoy you. You will find things, that are fine in Linux or Windows, but not in OSX. (Like X apps not working, apps that assume some Linux-specific capability or API not available, differently behaving linker - if you are developer, etc.)

And I hope you don't live in Eastern Europe. The Apple service there is attrocious, even little things like exchanging your power supply can take 3 or 4 weeks. Try using your computer without one...

[elsamuko]

Run in a VM on a linux host with OpenGL enabled.

[stith]

That's not exactly "using a mac", though. That's running OS X in a VM.

[motoboi]

This thread was going fine until someone talked about how apple is superior to all other manufacturers together.

This, obviously, needed a proper position from those who believe that Apple is not superior.

This whole "Apple is perfect" versus "Apple is for idiots" is pointless, as the majority here already knows. But some people insist in degrading a perfectly fine thread just to reproduce it here.

Grow up, guys.

BTW, I'm curious why people are allowed to talk about Google with the same adoration others talk of Apple but receive no counter arguments. Is Hacker News audience biased towards Google or Google is just consensus?

[ivanca]

Yeah, an also note awesome laptops like an Acer I got for $400 5 years ago and despite many many hard hits against the floor it still works and has the same battery life length. This is true, but the problem with anecdotal experience is that you can "prove" anything with it.

[gmac]

It's not as simple as: all Apple products are perfect and all Windows laptops are terrible. But the chances of your Apple hardware having a horrible fault, in my experience, are very significantly lower. And if it does have a horrible fault, it almost certainly won't be a stupid and maddening one caused by a third-party driver.

[izacus]

So chances are that 2000-3000$ piece of equpment have less faults than 300$-3000$ piece of equipment?

The problem with your argument is that you're doing a comparison of vastly different hardware and target markets. Lumping all Windows manufacturers and their laptop series into the same basket causes disenginous argument which is sadly perpetuated by Apple marketing.

Doing a relevant comparison like Apple 13" MacBooks with Lenovo's comparable ThinkPad series usually shows very comparable quality hardware and software wise.

[Gracana]

I have one of the new thinkpads at work, and (off the top of my head) the screen can be bent in and out considerably with a light push of the finger, and it has an incredibly rattly/wavy/cheap plastic strip of buttons above the keyboard. I don't think their quality is what it once was.

[peeky]

To be fair I've found Asus notebooks to be superb value for money hardware-wise, it's the drivers and software out of the box that are the problem.

[hrktb]

I've switched to a macbook many years ago because of the drivers and software of my windows machine.

Hardware is worthless without the software driving it, and in my experience the hunt/hacking of the problematic drivers comes back at every new major version of windows/linux you'll install on the box. In this respect, superb value hardware with crappy software is only worth it if you are willing to be tinkering on a regular basis.

[wvenable]

I'm the OP of this comment thread and I bought the Zenbook as an impulse purchase because it was many hundreds of dollars cheaper then the hardware-equivalent Macbook air at the time.

I'm definitely willing to tinker, and it was certainly frustrating to get right, but now it's one my favorite devices. But if you're not a little tech-savvy it wouldn't be a good purchase.

[throwawaykf05]

Sure, while you go collect those, here are a couple of the many collections that already exist for various Mac products:

https://discussions.apple.com/community/notebooks/macbook_pr...

http://www.mac-help.com/forums/mac-notebooks.3/

I find myself trawling through these posts for help pretty regularly.

And of course, forums like are from comprehensive. The most recent issue with my MBP in fact doesn't show up on any of these forums: it involved the keyboard and trackpad being totally irresponsive when my MBP woke from sleep. After many wild goose chases such as “reset the SMC”, I stumbled onto the fix by luck. Turns out it kept looking for a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse on waking up, totally ignoring the peripherals integrated into the notebook itself. The solution? Turning off Bluetooth. Sure, simple enough to fix, but “turn off Bluetooth” is not far from “you're holding it wrong”.

[PavlovsCat]

That reminds me of the way people sometimes defend flaws of their own nation by pointing out that it's worse elsewhere. So everybody points to North Korea, and North Korea points to outer space which is even more hostile to life. It's great for making people feel better, but completely useless to improve anything at all.

[subsection1h]

I own a Mac, but I recognize that Apple hardware is often grossly overpriced. For example, a 2014 Mac mini with a laptop-grade 3Ghz dual-core CPU, 16GB of RAM, a 512GB SSD, and an integrated GPU costs $1,699. That's ridiculous.

[Brian-Puccio]

Every Mac site and enthusiast has been complaining that you're better off in many performance cases with the 2012 Mac Mini, if you insist on a basic desktop sans monitor (which everyone admits is not Apple's forte, they concentrate on their portables and there are a few performance cases where a Mac Pro makes sense).

In short, you've picked what even Apple sites and enthusiasts claim is their worst choice.

[mikeash]

> The stock trackpad driver

Why is this even a thing? Why is the trackpad not simply a compliant USB HID device that can be recognized by the standard OS install? What the hell are PC manufacturers doing?

[Gracana]

Even Microsoft's mice and keyboards don't work when you first plug them in, Windows has to spin its wheels and "install a driver" (which it notifies you about) before they will work. If you're online with Windows Update, your computer will then offer to download some sort of control center for your mouse and keyboard. It's absolutely ridiculous.

[mertd]

Those are for application specific mapping of the special keys. They might appear mandatory, but aren't. Keyboards and mice run fine without any extra drivers. I own four different models.

[Gracana]

I know it's not mandatory, but if I click the "update" button, it gets installed.