[carussell]

Once upon a time, you could come across a post like this and confidently respond to it by pointing out that, no, Google's position as the default search engine in Firefox is not for sale to the highest bidder. So that even if, e.g.:

a) the "deal" with Google had never happened, and

b) Microsoft came out of nowhere and began offering to pay what Google is actually presently paying (or, let's say, just for fun, even double or triple that), all while

c) Google were making no offer to start paying

... then Google would still be the default search engine in Firefox, regardless.

The same almost definitely cannot be said today.

[cpeterso]

Years ago, Google was head and shoulders above all other search engines. Today Google's competition are almost as good, so other parameters might affect Mozilla's search engine defaults.

[carussell]

We are not talking about whether or not other search engines are probably, maybe now in a better place to compete with Google in terms of quality. Let's assume that they are, even. In fact, let's assume that they are, in fact, better. What we are talking about is this question:

Is the default search position in Firefox for sale to the highest bidder?

If Bing today is the better search engine, or if it's slightly inferior to Google, or if your perspective is that when Bing debuted it was terrible and it's even worse today--these are all absolutely immaterial. They have no bearing on the answer to this question.

[zobzu]

I think theres 3 arguments that are really important here:

- which is the technically better search engine?

- which will pay the most money? (gotta keep lights on!)

- which is the one the users actually want?

Google used to check all 3. Then only 2 (Pretty sure Bing would have paid more).

Today? I don't know.

Sadly engines like Duckduckgo probably can't afford to pay Mozilla enough to keep the lights on.

[nsajko]

What's changed?

[carussell]

Well the set of Mozillians today is not the same as the set of Mozillians in 2009, which is not the same as the set of Mozillians in 2004. It's such a facile thing point out, but it has a huge impact on a project.

Then, it's another very facile thing, but a person involved with Mozilla today who was involved X years ago differs from themselves by X years of experiences. X years' difference also produce X years' worth of changes in the externalities on a project. For example, what impact did the timbre of HN alone have on Mozilla in 2011? What impact was it having in 2008?

So pick how far back you want to go, and then enumerate events that have happened since then. The establishment of Mozilla Corporation. Key developers exiting the project to go work on what would become Chrome. Working with Google on VP8 before the public announcement at Google I/O 2010. The reality of a company that had a couple hundred employees or so for years and then quickly grew to one that now has 1000+, and dealing with that. The shift in focus from the Internet to a focus on the Web, and coping with a lack of influence on the direction of both. The shift in focus on users to a focus on designers and Web developers. The not-terrible idea but also not-amazing idea to try out directory tiles, then dooming it and destroying all kinds of public goodwill in a single stroke by doing this: < https://blog.mozilla.org/advancingcontent/2014/02/11/publish... >. Coping with a number of other failed projects and initiatives over the years like: Theora+VP8 for free video, BrowserID, Do Not Track and changes to third-party cookie policy, and Firefox OS.

Those are some changes Mozilla has been through.

(Note that this is a list of changes Mozilla has gone through, not a "list of bad things about Mozilla". If I were trying to make that kind of list, there are things on there that I wouldn't have put there, and things that aren't on there that should be. But it's not that kind of a list.)