[vidarh]

People are well within their right to believe he is guilty without waiting for a trial. People are well within their right to continue to believe he is guilty even if he is found not guilty - the standards of evidence and requirements to find someone guilty in a court of law are on purpose stringent on the basis that it is worse to imprison someone unjustly than let some criminals go free.

There's a vast gap from believing someone is guilty without waiting for a trial, to advocating the repeal of the rule of law.

As for your statement unless someone has presented evidence and accusations founded in something more than thin air, your example is not in any way equivalent.

[madaxe_again]

But the evidence and accusations are founded on nothing more than thin air until they are proven in a court of law. If we presume guilt until innocence - why even bother with a criminal justice system? Should we just revert to stoning people on the presumption of guilt?

While, yes, folks are free to assume guilt of others, it's an abominable thing to do, as all it does is play straight into the hands of those who would control criminal justice through their media mouthpieces.

It makes you no better than a lynch mob.

[s_q_b]

No, they're based upon a detailed explanation of the evidence of the state, given to a Grand Jury, who determines whether there is sufficient evidence to proceed to trial. That document is available publicly as an indictment.

Some indictments are bogus, some are solid. This one is solid. Also, since we're not lynching anybody that makes us at least slightly better than a lynch mob.

(P.S. we need a law like Godwin's for lynch mob references.)

[vidarh]

> If we presume guilt until innocence - why even bother with a criminal justice system?

Someone believing he is guilty outside a court of law does not cause him to get thrown in prison. That is why we bother with a criminal justice system, with specific standards.

> it's an abominable thing to do

It's the human thing to do. We all do it. You too, no matter how much you may want to pretend you don't judge. It is a fine thing to try to withhold judgement, but we are not even capable of fully preventing it.

In fact, you are expressing a great deal of judgement about people on the basis of lack of evidence in this very thread:

> It makes you no better than a lynch mob.

If you seriously don't see the difference between holding a belief, without making any statement about how certain you are that it is correct, and going out with the intent of subjecting someone to violence on the basis of that belief, then you seriously need to think through your thought process.

[madaxe_again]

Of course I see the difference - but I also see the causal link that leads from one to the other, all too easily.

[s_q_b]

I see a person who needs to study crowd dynamics and lynch mobs themselves if you think there's that strong of a causal link.