[flente]

EVERYONE who suffers from RSI should read this:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1269951

I read it about a year ago, and it was probably the single most important article I've read in my entire life.

Some background: I've been using computers since I was a little kid. Used to play videos games a whole ton. Around the age of 15, I started having severe RSI-related pain in my hands. Even after I stopped gaming, I could never get away from the keyboard and mouse, because I was a technology professional.

Fast forward 15 years. I'd been dealing with constant pain every day for as long as I could remember. My hands hurt even when I wasn't typing. It was bad enough that I was considering changing my line of work.

I'd tried every type of medical remedy under the sun. I'd seen (many) doctors, physical therapists, chiropractors, acupuncturists, etc., but I couldn't find any sort of treatment that provided anything but temporary pain relief.

Through some stroke of incredible luck, I stumbled across this article randomly while looking for something else. I read it and found Aaron's experience closely mirrored mine in a lot of ways. I immediately bought the book he recommended, started reading it on my Kindle, and began following the advice contained within.

Two weeks later, I was almost entirely pain-free. Now a year out, I can type all day without even the slightest twinge of pain. Seem too good to be true? I probably would've said the same thing if it hadn't happened to me.

I will say one thing -- I've recommended this book to a number of people at this point, but not all of them have had the same kind of result I have. I've noticed the ones who really buy into it and become convinced that their pain has a psychosomatic basis see their pain disappear. The ones who still stick to the idea their pain is caused by an previous injury or old age -- those folks don't seem to get much benefit.

[freehunter]

Really? I haven't read the book, but I did look up a book review. Please tell me if the review is inaccurate, because... wow. I thought Freud was a little off his rocker.

Dr. Sarno's theory can be stated simply: Most muscular/ skeletel pain is usually the result of early infantile and childhood trauma which has been repressed. The emotion involved is invariably that of profound anger and rage.

So repressed childhood trauma causes RSI. I'm not saying that body pains can't be psychosomatic, but that's a heck of a conclusion there. It sounds like some serious placebo effect. I'd love to see it tested against a similar but different explanation (a belief in your brainwaves being blocked by the lizardmen who run the government, for example).

http://primal-page.com/sarno.htm

[henrik_w]

An alternative data point: I had severe RSI several years ago, to the point of thinking that I would have to stop programming professionally alltogether. What worked for me was starting to use a break program (10 seconds micro breaks every 5 minutes, exercises for a few minutes every 45 minutes) and switching to a more ergonomic keyboard and mouse. It worked well for me, and I am now completely recovered. More details in "How I Beat Repetitive Stress Injury" http://henrikwarne.com/2012/02/18/how-i-beat-rsi/

Regardless of what works - any signs of RSI should be acted on immediately! It won't get better by itself.

[ericdykstra]

Yet another data point here...

After using the ergonomically suicidal Apple Magic Mouse and Apple wireless keyboard, I developed RSI after just a couple of months. I having my wrists and forearms massaged every night until the tightness went away (for the night), and I switched to a mechanical keyboard, a nice-sized gaming mouse, and started mousing with my left hand at work.

I haven't had any RSI symptoms for over 2 years, and still just alternate mousing hands (left-handed at work, right-handed at home), and use a mechanical keyboard without a 10-key (keeps your mouse closer to a neutral position for your body).

Here's what I use at work, if anyone is interested:

Mouse: http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Deathadder-Infrared-Gaming-Mouse...

Keyboard: http://www.amazon.com/Storm-QuickFire-Rapid-Tenkeyless-Mecha...

[klibertp]

Instead of a gaming mouse I had great success with trackballs. I have no idea why they fell out of favour - I remember them being rather popular some 10-15 years ago. Anyway, with a trackball I don't need to move my hand at all, except when switching from keyboard to mouse and back. I use this one: http://www.logitech.com/en-ca/product/trackman-marble YMMV, but I don't think I'm ever going to return to using mouse.

[VLM]

I have three computers on my desk with three trackballs side by side and the keyboard on a KVM switch. Well really just a "K" switch. Works pretty well for me. I use classic wired trackballs instead of your marble. I'm not happy that they're long discontinued but I stockpiled quite a few when production ended. I hate the idea of wireless, last thing I need in my life is one more thing to worry about charging to replacing batteries.

Trackballs are much faster. Given that I might switch from keyboard to trackball thousands of times per day, saving just one second by knowing where the trackball is, saves quite a bit of time. I also find it faster and more accurate for selection work to use my thumb instead of the much larger muscles used for mice.

I don't do much gui work other than clicking links in a web browser but when I do I find the trackball to be superior.

[unknownBits]

I am using a mechanical keaboard as well, and hardly have any signs of rsi. It's amazing to see professionals still using cheap and crappy keyboards as their main tool! I've invested in my computer gear, especially; good mouse, keyboard and screen (mind your eye's!).

[wastedhours]

That was something I taught myself at college (late high-school for those in the US) - I knew my career would be computer based, so forced myself to become natural using either hand for mousing. I switch every half an hour or so, and whilst my arms and shoulders aren't great, it's better than when I forget and do a full day on one hand.

Also have a mech at home, and seriously thinking about buying one out of my own cash for work (no way they're going to pay £100 for a keyboard...).

[Symbiote]

> Also have a mech at home, and seriously thinking about buying one out of my own cash for work (no way they're going to pay £100 for a keyboard...).

Work should pay £100 for a keyboard, if it's necessary for you to work healthily and safely. They spend more — often much more — than that on (for example) disabled toilets, lifts, ramps, chairs, manual handling training, first aid training, ...

See http://www.hse.gov.uk/msd/faq-dse.htm

> "My wrist aches when I use my mouse. How can I prevent this?" > ... "try a different size or shape of mouse. Your employer should help by providing a range of such equipment."

(Also, subtract VAT and it's only £80 anyway.)

[henrik_w]

Yes, Apple keyboards are ergonomical disasters.

[mattlutze]

Like Jobs' "software hobbyists" the Apple was originally built for, I suppose their keyboards are truly designed for the "typing hobbyist".

[orand]

I disagree. I've used all sorts of ergonomic keyboards, but always keep coming back to the quiet low-travel scissor-switch keyboards. I even went so far as to get an Apple wired keyboard for use with my Windows machine at work.

[melling]

Can you explain why? It would be beneficial to understand.

[branola]

Stopped clicking with a mouse completely and never looked back. Dwell clicking apps are a godsend for anyone with mouse-related injuries.

http://code.google.com/p/windows-dwell-clicker/

[tgrosinger]

I do this same thing using WorkRave. Highly recommend.

[djb_hackernews]

As a counterpoint, I also stumbled on to this same post at the same time as I was experiencing "RSI" (severe eye fatigue from computer use)

I bought the book immediately, which is odd for me because I am extremely skeptical but it is a pretty good indication of the dire situation I found myself in.

Within the first 20 pages I knew I had been had. The author is really proud of himself for being the only health care professional to finally connect the dots, and he takes at least the first half of the book telling as much.

Looking back at the blog post and even this comment it is weird that no one actually acknowledges the "process" or provides any sort of detail on their own situation and what really worked for them.

[blablabla123]

There was an article recently posted on HN. It's about itches and neurology, really long and slightly disgusting, still recommend it:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8359390

[...] but perhaps also the hundreds of thousands of people in the United States alone who suffer from conditions like chronic back pain, fibromyalgia, chronic pelvic pain, tinnitus, temporomandibular joint disorder, or repetitive strain injury, where, typically, no amount of imaging, nerve testing, or surgery manages to uncover an anatomical explanation. [...]

[300bps]

I read a similar comment on Slashdot.org about 11 years ago when I was suffering from terrible wrist pain, hand numbness, etc. Here is additional information on the Sarno mind body approach to curing RSI:

http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html

I am 11 years free of any wrist pain. I use a cheap crappy keyboard that came with an old Dell computer and a normal mouse to program about 60 hours per week.

[jwr]

Seconded. I am grateful to Aaron Iba for posting his article (http://aaroniba.net/articles/tmp/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain.htm...). I had similar experiences, and thanks to him my (severe) RSI problems are a thing of the past. There was a time when I was reduced to dictating and using touch-only keyboards (by FingerWorks) or ergonomic keyboards, and even that for a limited number of hours per day. These days I can type on anything, in any position, for any amount of time.

Let's expand on the psychosomatic illnesses a little. Now (several years later) I know that there are a number of symptoms that are caused by my mind. I know when to expect them, I can make a pretty good guess whether a given problem is mind-caused or not. What I can't do is cure them completely, still working on that. But I do know that Sarno is right.

Now, before you hit "reply" and go all-scientific, think for a moment. The problem we have is that we don't have ways to "measure" the mind. You can't easily just form control groups and do clinical trials. What works for one person might not work for another. So I can understand why doctors would rather stay away from the subject and pretend that the body and the mind are entirely separate (which is actually demonstrably untrue). They can't do anything else, as a doctor is sworn to only use scientifically-proven methods.

I see this discussion come up regularly. There are usually two groups that form: people who managed to deal with their illnesses and people who say that all this psychosomatic illnesses talk is hogwash. I am in the former group and I am worried that the latter group prevents many people from healing. So, if you suffer from things like RSI, joint or tendon pain, back pain, muscle pain, jaw pain, frequent sore throat (yes), frequent sinus/nasal infections (yes), at the very least do yourself a favor and read one of Sarno's books. I'd also suggest other sources, but I simply don't know of any, except an increasing number of studies that show that we don't understand the "placebo effect" and that the mind has much more to do with physical health than was previously thought.

Obviously, nobody suggests that any illness can be cured just by reading a book or thinking about it. There are certain physiological aspects of your body that your mind can influence and some that it can't. From what I observed myself, the two main "tools" are changing muscle tension and restricting blood flow.

And finally: nobody (least of all Sarno) is saying that you should avoid talking to doctors. The first step is always to seek medical help and eliminate any physical cause. What should alarm you is when after multiple visits to doctors you're not getting any closer to curing the problem. Unfortunately, very few doctors will tell you clearly that they have no idea what is going on, so you have to listen and think. If you're doing test after test, if your doctors say "well, let's try [medication name here]", the problem you are observing might be the symptom, not the cause.

[melling]

His conclusion:

"just an area of soft tissues suffering from mild oxygen deprivation." http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc

Couldn't symptoms be treated by increasing blood flow with exercise or stretching, for example? If stress is a cause, wouldn't it be relieved by reducing symptoms?

[roghummal]

And you'll also get a neon-green stress ball, absolutely free!

But wait, there's more!

If you call in the next thirty minutes, we'll double the offer!

That's two magic books, two stress balls, all for the same low, low price!