[TheRealDunkirk]

You want history? I'll give you history. The bottom line is that Microsoft used it's monopoly position to destroy Netscape, who -- really, let's be honest -- made "the web" a thing to begin with at all.

If Microsoft would have made Internet Explorer a boxed piece of software to sit on the shelf beside Netscape Navigator, and if they had priced it similarly, and if people had voted with their wallets in IE's direction (because it was actually a better product for the money), I wouldn't have had a problem with IE taking over the world. As it was, they bundled it, and it was crap in comparison (at least to start with, and many would say up until recently), but Netscape couldn't compete with free.

THAT'S what a lot of us still remember. It was a perfect, easily-visible example of a lot of business moves they have made, and for which they ultimately -- not only weren't punished -- but actually were allowed to prosper because of. THAT'S why people like me are still sore about it.

They won because of BUSINESS SAVVY and LEGAL moves, not TECHNICAL MERIT, and people in the software development world (and everyone else) have paid the price for it for 20 years. (I can't get Sametime in the web version of Lotus Notes to work unless I use Internet Explorer, and in "compatibility mode", to emulate their non-standards-compliant behavior that everyone was forced to code around, as one immediate example.)

All the touchy-feely "openness" they're trying to foist on the world now is going to have to be everything they hope people will interpret it as for the next THIRTY years for me to believe they really want to interoperate with the rest of the world like Linux always has.

[scholia]

IE was better than Netscape by about version 4/4.5, and it was more standards-compliant by IE6. The Netscape code was awful and Microsoft had two IE teams working in parallel, with the second one working to "componentize" IE and leapfrog Netscape. Which it did.

Netscape always had a free version* available, so it wasn't really down to price. (*though it was usually the buggier beta version.) Otherwise, its plan was to make money on server side, and despite buying in several server companies, it failed.

While Netscape was technically inferior, it is true that Netscape's own marketing and managerial mistakes contributed to its downfall. For example, you could only download it from Netscape, you couldn't customize or rebadge it, and at one point it decided to withdraw it, so you could only get it as part of a Netscape suite.

All of this was suicidal when Microsoft was shipping a free IEDK and allowing computer mags and ISPs to distribute IE.

Finally, in the anti-trust lawsuit, Microsoft WON the browser case 2-1 on appeal. So bundling wasn't actually illegal, as alleged.

I watched all this closely at the time. It is also well documented in several books, including How The Web Was Won, Competing on Internet Time, and the great High St@kes, No Prisoners.

[TheRealDunkirk]

If IE was ever more standards-compliant than it's competition, it was a very short-lived period. It made cross-platform (i.e., normal, ordinary, and real) web development problematic for over a decade.

You can say Netscape imploded, but they experienced a fight-or-flight response forced on them by Microsoft's scummy actions. I never said that bundling was illegal, but that's a purely legalistic distinction. I certainly implied it was unethical.

Before the trial, Microsoft gave about $10K a year in political donations. By the time it ended, they were giving over a million to EACH side. You weren't the only one watching, but not everyone watched the same things.

[scholia]

Microsoft made IE more standards-compliant than Netscape because this was a competitive advantage for Microsoft. It's a common tactic for companies when the dominant supplier has a 90% market share.

Remember "Best viewed with Netscape Navigator"? Netscape wanted to control the web by defining and unilaterally introducing web standards, so Microsoft naturally allied itself with the W3C.

It was short lived because Microsoft effectively abandoned browser development following anti-trust action, because it decided it could/would only ship browsers with operating systems. This turned out to be a bad choice because of the long delay between XP (which included IE6) and Vista. The slow take-up of Vista made it even worse. Microsoft didn't want people to use IE6 or XP, but the market decided otherwise.

All this goes back to the consent decree that Microsoft signed with Janet Reno. This specified that Microsoft was allowed to improve the operating system by adding new features. This more or less required it to build IE into the OS.

Microsoft was already under investigation during this period, and for the decade after the case, Microsoft operated under the close supervision of a US Judge. Whether or not you think its actions were scummy, it's unlikely they were illegal. Indeed, during this time, Microsoft was certainly easier for third parties to deal with than Netscape -- see High Stakes for examples.

As for political donations, this was also inevitable. Netscape couldn't compete in either technology or marketing so it played politics instead. Microsoft had operated on the basis that it wouldn't get involved with politics, and then it got screwed for its neglect. It simply decided not to make that mistake again. As anyone would.

Either way, Netscape was doomed in the long run. It was deluded in thinking that people would pay for a client access program. (You're welcome to provide examples of companies that have made pots of money out of this, but usually the client is free and people pay for the service.)

Netscape was even further deluded when it thought that it could charge PC manufacturers to ship its browser. The reality is that companies have to pay PC OEMs for distribution.

The final delusion was that users would pay a price for Netscape Communicator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape_Communicator in order to get their hands on Netscape Navigator.

You really don't need any conspiracy theories to understand why Netscape lost. It had a combination of arrogance and incompetence the like of which I have not seen before or since.

[nbevans]

You weren't on the web back then were you? It seems pretty obvious from this that you weren't. IE was not a bad product. It beat Netscape on both technical and commercial merit.

It's almost like you would rather still be paying for web browser software today. Would you?

[TheRealDunkirk]

I've been on "the web" since Usenet on real Unix machines in college. I was rummaging around gopher servers on Linux. I had a SLIP dial-in account using Trumpet Winsock on WfWG. I had a DSL line hosting a video sharing site out of my house in '96. Heck, I ran IE on Solaris x86 for awhile. And, yet, somehow, it's "obvious" to you that I wasn't "on the web back then?" Uh. Wow. No, I was never on ARPANet, but, sheesh. I don't usually expect that sort of thing from HN, but I guess times are changing.