[cyphunk]

I appreciate this response. You have brought us to the chicken and egg situation. I do believe Israel has reason to respond to artillery. I will also admit that Israel does not have the leverage South Korea does or EU/US do in the examples I gave. The lack of leverage is however partially their doing. 60+ years of occupation can do this. They took away the option of destroying their enemies economy because they already did that. They took away the option of removing their freedom of movement and sense of self-sufficiency because they have already done that. Finally they took away their ability for basic survival as they already starve the citizens of Gaza. So it is likely all they have left is to bomb. I have issue with the false pretence and escalation and I would have expected Israel to have reserved killing human shields for some later escalation.

    it is not a "human shield" if you shoot anyway. 
    It's just a dead body.
    https://twitter.com/Tolstoved/status/493177973810294784

The stats concerning collateral damage in the previous war are astounding. Looking at only the percentage of children and women killed in comparison of the over all total, one has to be gobsmacked at any excuses. I seem to remember this number alone being more than 50% of all deaths. Considering that they were all likely not "combatants" one should also assume that a significant portion of the male deaths were also not combatant. I highly doubt Israel intended to kill so many innocent people but can't see any other explanation other than just turning a blind eye. It was, without a doubt, grotesque.

[mikevm]

I too was surprised by the high civilian casualties given Israel's attempts at warning the population before they strike. I wondered why would people stay in that area if they knew the Israelis were going to strike? And then I got the answer: http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4706/gazan-hamas-war-crime...

    "Hamas imposed a curfew: anyone walking out in the street was shot. 
    That way people had to stay in their homes, even if they were about to get bombed. 
    Hamas held the whole Gazan population as a human shield." — K., graduate student

Regarding the civilian-to-fighter ratio: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28688179

Another interesting thing to note is that according to the CIA World Factbook (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...) Gaza's age structure is:

   0-14 years: 43.2% (male 402,848/female 381,155)
   15-24 years: 20.6% (male 191,710/female 182,405)
   25-54 years: 30.1% (male 280,551/female 266,756)

[BugBrother]

>> I would have expected Israel to have reserved killing human shields for some later escalation.

More of your "facts". :-(

The Israelis talked a lot and made videos about "knocks on roofs", calling civilians and about not shooting where there were civilians.

If that is wrong, you need better references than your last ones...

But assume you are right -- maybe, possibly the Israeli side lowered themselves to the Hamas level in some cases.

Come on, tell me you don't have different standards. :-)

Never mind, bad fact errors in two comments.

Enough.

Please don't destroy HN. :-(

[cyphunk]

Again with my facts:

http://gazadeaths.com/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/the-un-says-...

My point was you do not even have to trust the UN's estimate that nearly 75% were civilians. You can use logical deduction to come to a number of more than %50 when you consider the number of women and children killed in comparison to the total, any total you find.

[BugBrother]

It is documented that Hamas shot from civilian areas. If the return fire kills civilians, it isn't the Israelis that broke the war laws.

Also, note the sex distribution: 671 dead men, 218 women.

And among older people, not of front line age, the sex distribution was much more even.

The media are planned more than the weapons in those conflicts. Note that the Israeli side have an interest in few Palestinian civilian dead, Hamas has the opposite interest...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28666562

Anyway, bye.