[shostack]

I think the % of the process that is spent on pricing is highly dependent on the situation and players. In this particular case, I've had some where it was very quick and clear cut, and some where it was very clear they were trying to jerk me around on it to see how much they could get out of me and it took waaay too much time to get to the bottom of that.

I likewise will also agree that there are valid reasons for not publishing the price as a way of better qualifying leads before first sales contact.

That said, that still doesn't justify why pricing can't be transparent and clear cut once the lead is qualified and they are in the sales process. Simply knowing that the initial pricing presented is not final and needs to be negotiated is a giant PITA and still a waste of time. If you claim pricing is such a small piece of it, why then do companies bother with the negotiation piece if the actual amounts might be trivial compared to whether or not they close the deal? Does the psychological benefit of conceding to a lower price (from an already padded initial price) really make that big a difference in close rates?

I agree pricing discussions should not take longer than 30 minutes, but unfortunately, many sales people I've dealt with prefer to play car salesman style games.

Do you have any suggestions on how to approach such conversations to get the best/fair price with a minimum of back-and-forth headaches that can cut through some of what I've described? I've tried a few different approaches with varying success and am always open to others to test out.

[beachstartup]

yeah. tell the sales guy what your budget is, and have him suggest some solutions that will maximize that value for you. you don't have to tell the exact truth here. a good sales person will use that as a starting point and craft a series of further questions and/or discussions for you to hone your needs into a specification that can be delivered.

too many people who usually don't buy things try to play amateur negotiator and refuse to name a number. it's really transparent and frustrating. generally these deals don't go through because the person doing the buying doesn't know what the hell he's doing and he assumes a combative relationship instead of one that tries to solve a problem.

especially when you spend hours crafting a proposal and getting input from sales engineering and executive management and accounting and client delivery, and the first thing that comes out of the customer is sticker shock because the customer refused to state his budget and requirements because he read it in a self help book somewhere.

again, most of these sales 'techniques' really are just designed to not waste anyone's valuable time. buyers will waste their own time and not even realize it because it feels like you're "getting one over" on them when in reality you're just being a moron.