[mikeryan]

In this thread

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=829583

Jason from 37signals said they'd have a post that FU money is a myth. I hope this isn't it.

The point of FU money isn't that you'd actually quit everything and walk away. Its about the ABILITY to do so. Once you reach this point everything else is about being able to make your own choices, not being backed into a corner because you have bills to pay.

[jasonfried]

"Once you reach this point everything else is about being able to make your own choices, not being backed into a corner because you have bills to pay."

You're an individual. You can already make your own choices.

My big problem with this whole "FU" money concept, and your thought I quoted above, is that people seem to think they need to get this opportunity from someone else. That someone else gives them the opportunity to do what they want to do. That someone else is the one who gives them the money. If you continue to think like this then that's exactly what'll happen - you'll be unable to make your own choices because you are waiting for someone else to make them for you.

I do hope to post more on this shortly.

[run4yourlives]

You can already make your own choices.

Except of course, that the amount of money in your bank account directly influences the effects of those choices. The more you have, the more "free" your choice is.

It's one thing to recognize that you are a man that can make your own choices, it's another to tell your kid he can't eat today because you didn't like what your boss was telling you to do.

[codyrobbins]

Yeah, but I think his point is that the amount of money in your bank account is a direct result of your own choices and actions. And the fact that you have a kid is a result of your choices.

If you have a kid to feed and that’s constraining your ability to focus on a startup as you would like, maybe you shouldn’t have chosen to have a kid.

[run4yourlives]

All fair points.

That being said though, your future choices are sometimes dictated by the results of your past choices. (i.e., the kid is always going to be more important that your startup dreams if you are a responsible adult)

[calambrac]

My big problem with this whole "FU" money concept, and your thought I quoted above, is that people seem to think they need to get this opportunity from someone else.

That makes no sense. Of course you need to get that opportunity from someone else: your customers, your family, your investors, or your buyer, whoever is handing you the money you need to meet your needs. At the end of the day, if someone else hasn't given it to you, you aren't getting it.

[iamwil]

While in the literal sense, you get opportunity from others, I think people get stuck in a mode of thinking that they need to get lots of money to pursue some vision or objective that they want. It becomes a mental barrier where they say, "I can't do this because I don't have a million dollars" Where in truth, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Just because something takes a million dollars to do, doesn't mean that it has to be your million dollars.

I think Jason Fried's just saying "Be relentlessly resourceful" in a different way. You don't need anything like lack of personal money to stop you from doing what you want to do.

It's odd to me how many on HN readily accepted pg's "Be relentlessly resourceful" idea, but when it comes to the idea in a different form, how many rally against it.

"Be relentlessly resourceful" applies to things beyond startups, from paying your kids' tuitions, getting to drink mojitos on an island, and pursuing your economically unviable project.

[calambrac]

That's not what they're saying, though, at least not since they started posting these essays after the Mint sale. They've been talking as though taking a giant payday is somehow morally wrong, that it's backing down and giving up some kind of good fight. That's a much stronger stance than "Don't wait for a rich man to come along and give you permission to chase your dreams, just chase them anyways." - it's actually editorializing on what the content of those dreams should be.

[jasonfried]

I was alluding to a big external event (investment, sale, IPO, liquidation), not to the day-to-day exchanges that are part of your business (selling product, offering services, etc). You can do anything you want on your own without the blessing of someone with a lot more money than you.

[calambrac]

I know what you're alluding to, I'm just saying it's an arbitrary distinction. There's absolutely no reason taking a giant payday from a single source is somehow inferior to taking money from thousands of customers in terms of your personal freedom.

[GHFigs]

In that sense, all money is fuck you money.

[aditya]

Unless you're the government and can just print as much as you want. :-)

I think the 37signal's viewpoint is interesting, and the point they're trying to make is this, you can chose to do interesting stuff that will make you money while you work for the man.

It is _not_ easy. You have to come back from a long day of "meetings, politics, and code" and shut everything out and just create. Sometimes it'll be fun, sometimes it'll be downright boring and impossible seeming, but you own that time, and you can choose how to spend it. If you spend it watching TV then that is your choice. But, there are plenty of ways to make people pay you for stuff that you want to do if you just take the opportunity.

(Sorry if that sounds too guru-ish or self-helpy but thinking that way has made it much easier to rationalize working evenings and weekends for me.)

[calambrac]

Unless you're the government and can just print as much as you want.

Yeah, ask Zimbabwe how that's working out.

you can chose to do interesting stuff that will make you money while you work for the man.

I don't think that's the point they're making at all. They're saying don't work for the man, and don't look for an opportunity to sell your work to the man for a giant payday - "do your own thing" and keep doing it.

[hughprime]

Yeah, ask Zimbabwe how that's working out.

Hey, if anyone has Fuck You money it's Robert Mugabe. (He also has a Fuck You army though, which I guess helps).

[pyre]

If you're trying to say -- as a sub-post said -- "don't wait for a rich man to come and give you permission to pursue your dreams," then you're not looking at the whole picture. 'FU money' doesn't mean that you go down to 'Mojito Island' and sip drinks on the beach for the rest of your life. 'FU money' is money that says, "I'm set for life."

After you have 'FU money' you don't have to worry about making tough choices to try and make ends meet. At that point, you can create another start-up or whatever it is you want to do, without needing to worry about becoming homeless at some point (or going into major debt).

I posit this example:

  I like programming and working on web apps/etc. So I create
  a startup to use my passion to develop a cool and marketable
  idea. The idea takes off and someone wants my to cash out
  to the tune of $40M.
  
  Yes, I won't have my startup (i.e. baby) anymore, but I will 
  also have the freedom to create another startup, or just to
  do development on whatever I like (without regard to whether
  or not it is marketable). In this case, I've given up my
  startup for the chance to free myself from having to say
  things like, "I better stop working on this cool idea
  because I have a family to feed." Or, "I really want to
  work on this idea, but my mom has cancer, needs constant care,
  and we can't afford to have someone looking after her."

[axod]

>> "My big problem with this whole "FU" money concept, and your thought I quoted above, is that people seem to think they need to get this opportunity from someone else."

What???? It's exactly the same as selling your product to customers. Only difference is there's one sale, and it's a big one.

[wallflower]

> Jason from 37signals said they'd have a post that FU money is a myth.

I can think of one example. Nico Mak from Nico Mak computing wrote the original WinZip. About 10 years ago, he was making about $1m/month in corporate license fees. I can almost guarantee he is on his own private island somewhere, living the anonymous rich life.

[natemartin]

I completely agree. FU money means that you have the freedom to work on what you want to work on. You can start any venture you want, launch whatever idea you want, and are free to take risks.

FU money simply means you have a guaranteed salary, no matter what. It has nothing to do with retiring. And I think it's a completely valid dream to have.