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by kamau 4289 days ago
>The average IQ among black Americans is 85, and the average testosterone level among black males is 20% higher than it is among whites. Both of these traits are strong predictors of violent behavior.<

The racists have come out to play.
1 comments
peterfirefly 4289 days ago
Hopefully you agree that it is an empirical question?

If it isn't possible to go out and look at the world to see if the average IQ is 85 then it isn't possible to see that it isn't 85.

Now, I wonder if somebody has done that and what the results were...

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kamau 4289 days ago
Spare me. Statements such as those are almost always concerned with promoting and upholding white supremacy/racism. Would the statement been given any legitimacy if it was stated that '...the average white IQ is 85...'? I doubt it. The fact that a statements like these are made with no or dubious evidence is bad enough. Asserting that there is an empirical question here, when said dubious statement is refuted, is the icing on the cake.

P.S. I do understand that this is an empirical statement/question. But so is the assertion that there is a teapot on the moon.

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ebfe 4289 days ago
What exactly are you trying to say? The fact that the average black IQ in America is 85 is an empirically proven fact. [1]

You can certainly argue that IQ is a flawed measurement of intelligence, or that the IQ gap stems solely from environmental factors, but just flat out plugging your ears and denying that studies have found the mean black IQ to be 85 is an absurd display of intellectual dishonesty.

[1]http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf

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kamau 4289 days ago
You cant say that it is an empirically proven fact, anc then concede that it is a possibly flawed measurement. I'm all too familiar with racists, and you sir/mam look familiar.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/jason-richwine-race-iq...

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IkmoIkmo 4288 days ago
> I'm all too familiar with racists

You must be familiar with Rushton then, the author of the study he cited. I'd be hard pressed to name a more blatant racist than Rushton in academia... I really can't take that study seriously.

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ebfe 4288 days ago
"The belief that there are biological differences between ethnic populations is wrong because the belief that there are biological differences between ethnic populations is wrong."

I apologize if I'm misinterpreting you, but do you not see something incredibly tautological with that line of reasoning?

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IkmoIkmo 4288 days ago
Sorry but, are you at all familiar with Rushton? He's been blatantly called a racist by just about everyone and his work has been academically criticized left and right for a lack of unbiased scientific rigor. In your own words, to use his work as evidence is to me, an absurd display of intellectual dishonesty.
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ebfe 4288 days ago
I have no doubt that he's a racist, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the accuracy of this particular paper. What do you see as the error that invalidates its conclusions?
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IkmoIkmo 4288 days ago
I haven't read the paper. I know it sounds like a cop out (have you?). But then if I'd read it, it wouldn't really have mattered as I'm not an expert in the field. I'm no more qualified to criticize his data as someone who refuses global warming or evolution. Yet in all three topics, I can still hold an opinion that I believe to be the right one, which isn't the opinion of the average citizen, journalist or politician, but that of the average scientist. And here we see scientists overwhelmingly opining the validity of evolution, global warming, and that Rushton's work is utter bs. His work has been routinely dismissed on scientific grounds by the vast majority of scientists who have bothered to look into them. On them I depend for my own opinion. You may dismiss me on grounds that if I haven't read, analyzed and researched the paper's data, theories and conclusions, that I shouldn't speak on it. That's fine. I disagree but I can see why you'd say that. But to dismiss the fact that overwhelmingly scientists have looked upon his work unfavorably on scientific, but ideological grounds I think is myopic.

Anyway, I'll return the question... Did you read and believe in the validity of his data, theory and conclusions in this paper or in a general sense? And do you believe that the majority of scientists in relevant fields agree with his conclusions? You have my answers on these two (no and no), I'm curious to hear yours.

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