[jey]

What is the exact problem with someone saying "One of the reasons I attend hackathons is to hit on chicks"? Is it the phrasing or the concept itself? Would it be more acceptable to say "One of the reasons I attend hackathons is to meet interesting and attractive women", or is the idea itself the problem?

I can definitely imagine someone objecting to being described as "a chick" instead of "a woman". However, I don't mind being described as "a dude", and I don't really understand the difference between the two.

[tbrownaw]

The problem is, "one of the reasons I attend hackathons is to [distract other people from hacking]".

Really, turning it into a gender/oppression/whatever issue obscures the problem -- other attendees are present for a well-known purpose, and you're there not just for some other purpose (which wouldn't necessarily be that big a deal, ex. sponsors/recruiters) but to interfere with their achieving that purpose.

[jey]

I agree that it's a problem if someone is there just to cause a distraction and not there for the hackathon itself. However, when I attend a hackathon, it's because I'm legitimately interested in hacking on X and in meeting other people interested in X. (If I only wanted to efficiently write code and not meet cool people, I'd just do it at my own desk!)

[tedks]

It's the concept. It objectifies women. A hackfest is not a nightclub or a dating site. Having to constantly turn down sexual advances is awkward, and many times physically dangerous, and it has an effect of excluding women from spaces.

It's basic male entitlement to think that women should be receptive to their advances, at any time and in any place. Having to fend off creepy, socially awkward men makes conferences and the tech field as a whole incredibly hard to be in as a woman, and as a result, computer science is dragging literally all of STEM down with its grossly imbalanced gender ratio.

[jey]

It seems an overgeneralization to claim that a heterosexual man flirting at a hackathon is by definition "objectifying" her or that it implies that he thinks "that women should be receptive to their advances at any time and in any place". It is equally plausible that he's interested in her as a person (and not as a mere object), and that he respects her right to reject his advances. I acknowledge that it's certainly possible that a man (or woman) could make advances in ways that are disrespectful and that shouldn't be tolerated, but I don't see how expressing romantic or sexual interest in this context is intrinsically evil.

I agree that disrespectful behavior should not be tolerated, but I don't believe that all expressions of romantic interest outside of dating websites and nightclubs are intrinsically disrespectful.

[tedks]

I don't recall stating anything about definitions; however, if you're a man approaching someone at a hackathon, you probably don't know the person otherwise (or you'd do so at a more appropriate place and time) and you're probably doing so on the basis of appearance (i.e., objectifying women). You're probably doing so because you think she'll be receptive (I have no idea what logic constructs these thoughts but men have them nonetheless).

I would say that your comment is a perfect example of male entitlement. Is it really so impossible to restrain yourself for the few hours a hackathon lasts?

Regardless of whether you actually are the one "nice guy" who would be respectful of a declined proposition, women have no such luxury. Because of our cultural focus on blaming women victims of sexual assault, women are taught (and rightly so) to be cautious of men, and a man becoming violent or threatening because of rejection is incredibly common. Forcing a woman to go through an incredibly stressful and frankly frightening experience, because you feel entitled to do so, is simply chauvinist. It demonstrates that you think your right to hit on women is primary compared to women's safety and mental well-being.

If you don't think that's intrinsically evil, I guess you just don't think women are human to the same degree you are, which is pretty common sentiment in tech circles.

[cauterized]

This. 1000 times this.

It's ok to go to a hackathon to meet people in general and to maintain the hope that you'll make a connection with someone you find attractive.

It's not ok to try to flirt at a hackathon with someone who is doing her darnedest to be taken seriously as a professional. You have no idea how frustrating it is to have people take more and earlier note of the fact that one has two X chromosomes than of one's intellectual abilities, especially in a nominally professional setting. And that's before we even get to dealing with actual unwanted advances.

[tbrownaw]

It's basic male entitlement to think that women should be receptive to their advances, at any time and in any place.

...Yeah, that's bullshit (and offensive misandrist bullshit at that). There's nothing gender-specific, and nothing to do with "entitlement".

It's more failure to recognize that someone who's busy with something they like, probably won't enjoy being interrupted (no matter how much the topic is something you like).

[tedks]

Haha, "misandry."

Great way to out yourself as a redpiller; I sincerely hope you gain the emotional maturity necessary to overcome your mail privilege/entitlement and have a fulfilling life.

[dragonwriter]

I think that that may be too quick to infer group entitlement when the underlying issue is individual narcissism.