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by mgregory22 4303 days ago
The difference between correlation and causation is merely conventional. Does the striking of a match cause it to ignite? There is no way to prove that it does, only the correlation between the striking and the ignition makes us say they're causal. Correlation is the only way to determine what's causal and what's not.

On the other hand, if you want to look at it philosophically, then the only sensible definition of "causation" is "anything necessary for a thing to exist." So what's necessary for a thing to exist? Every other thing in the universe that is not that thing! Pluto causes us to exist right now because it hasn't turned into a giant space goat and swallowed the Earth. Yes, the fact that something DIDN'T prevent the existence of a thing is also ultimately a cause of that thing's existence. Causation in its purest form can help us understand the nature of reality, but it can't help us predict anything. It's only when we draw a line between causes that we can control and causes that we can't that it becomes a practical tool (not that understanding reality isn't practical).

So you can see, this whole correlation != causation discussion is pure nonsense. Get some philosophical skill before you try to discuss philosophical issues and stop embarrassing yourselves. Sheesh, it's ridiculous.

4 comments

What? Your comment is pure nonsense. Of course you can prove that striking a match causes it to ignite. There's a long chain of events, each of which trivially physically verifiable, which starts with you moving the match head while applying a given amount of pressure against the material lining the matchbox, which then, due to friction, flakes off (both head and lining), the two react together to produce a spark and a flame starts. You can cut the chain down to micro-events and you'll find each one to be consistently verifiable.

Or do an experiment - grab a mug and lift it. I claim that your arm motion while your hand had grabbed the mug caused it to ascend. We can again examine the basic physical events, cutting them as fine as you'd like, and we'll see that it really was you with your arm, who caused the mug to ascend.

This is a cause-and-effect link -- when you can show how event A lead to event B via a chain of events, each of which directly causes the next. At the least you need to show that there is a sensible progression from the cause to the effect, in order to claim a causation.

Correlation on the other hand is a description of past observations. You can observe that each time it snows people increase their energy expenditure in order to heat their homes. Does the increase in heating cause the snow? That doesn't seem likely, knowing how heating works. It could be that increased energy demands leads to more coal being burned, leading to larger clouds being formed and lowering the outside temperature. However, even though increased coal burning does lead to such effects, they're pretty small from just increased heating, so we can discount this hypothesis. On the other hand, you can show that cold weather causes snow. Water that falls in cold air crystallises and becomes snow. So there is a definite causative relationship between cold weather and snow. Could there also be a causative relationship between cold weather and heating? Well, assuming that people wish to live at a constant surrounding air temperature of about 20-30 degrees, that seems very likely. There are of course individuals who don't fit that profile, but they are very few (I can't actually provide a study which supports that claim, but just assume it for the purposes of this demonstration). In the end, we can say that while snow and heating are correlated, heating does not cause snow. They simply have a common cause - cold weather.

And finally, if you keep your home at a constant temperature, the setting on your heater does not correlate with the temperature inside your home, because the temperature is constant, while you have to change the setting up and down to counteract the more or less cold weather outside. It does correlate perfectly with the outside temperature, but I'll leave proving that putting your heater on high doesn't make the temperature outside drop by 10 degrees as an exercise.

Any fact that depends on observation is uncertain, no matter how small or trivial it may seem. This whole physical world could be an incredibly elaborate computer simulation. We can never know the true nature of our observations, so nothing we observe can ever prove anything.
I agree with others. Your comment is nonsense. But the match question is more complicated than it looks.

Striking a match causes ignition because other humans have already made a long list of correlations and found them reliable enough to build a thing called a 'match'.

This is one of the differences between science and technology. Technology is practical causality. You know enough about phenomena to be reasonably confident that you can assemble them into configurations that do useful things in a reliable way.

Science is about not being sure if correlations exist until you check to find out. Science is also about building abstract models that can reliably predict unexpected correlations.

I'm not sure there's more to the idea of causation than reliable correlation backed up by elegant and efficient abstraction with predictive power. (There probably is, but it's not something I've looked into enough.)

Quantum theory has a habit of pushing this in unexpected directions. It seems to be about manipulating probabilities rather than objects. The idea that you can causally manipulate a probability distribution is a deeply weird one if you stop to wonder what exactly is being manipulated in physical terms, and how.

Apart from semantic acrobatics, there is a practical need for defining causation in science and technology. The cause has to have a temporal precedence and be necessary.

> Causation in its purest form can help us understand the nature of reality, but it can't help us predict anything

huh?

The arrow of time. Randomised experiments.