Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by vasco_ 4301 days ago
Vasco Pedro, CEO and Co-founder of Unbabel.

I feel that while it is very important to have honest discussions regarding employee expectations, in this particular case Andreas is being particularly disingenuous and stating facts that are plainly false. As the CEO of Unbabel, I find it hard to let wrong factual information be posted about Unbabel. There is a great deal of subjectivity in these matters and we are sensitive to the fact that being fired is not an easy thing, which is why I will try to stick to the facts. Despite the unwarranted distraction all this caused, we wish to put this matter behind us and wish Andreas well in his future endeavors.

The offer letter he received, which was in English, stated clearly the “at will” nature of the contract. The relevant clause is below.

- "While we hope that your employment with the Company will be mutually satisfactory, employment with the Company is for no specific period of time. As a result, either you or the Company is free to terminate your employment relationship at any time for any reason, with or without cause. This is the full and complete agreement between us on this term. Although your job duties, title, compensation and benefits, as well as the Company’s personnel policies and procedures, may change from time-to-time, the “at-will” nature of your employment may not be changed except by an express writing signed and dated by both you and the President of the Company."

This was also explained thoroughly upon signing of the actual contract, which was a standard contract of full time employment within the Portuguese law, which includes 3 months trial period, by default. At the time we did not have our contract translated to English, which is why we took great pains to make sure everything was clear, but shortly after all the contracts were translated to English.

Furthermore, as I stated before, when he was let go we gave him more severance than was required, we paid him one extra month of salary and added another $1000 on top of it to compensate for unforeseen expenses. We have tried to the best of our ability to not make sure that Andreas had enough to get back to Sweden, if that was what he wished.

As Andreas admits, the company loaned him money to pay rent, helped him find a house, and treated him with respect, courtesy and welcomed him to the team. Andreas worked with 4 different co-workers and got negative feedback from all of them. There was a fundamental problem of communication with Andreas and there appeared to be a systematic misunderstanding of goals, as well as constant exacerbation of minor problems.

Communication is two-way channel, so obviously this was not necessarily the fault of the individual, and a high growth startup is certainly an environment that is suitable for misunderstandings, since we rely on a lot of assumptions, which is why over communication is extremely important. In any case it felt to us that there wasn’t a good fit between Andreas and the team. We hired 8 employees around the same period, and 7 of them continue to be productive, happy and valuable members of the team. Of the 8 employees, 5 are not Portuguese, creating a very diverse group.

Andreas himself was very happy until the day he was fired, which shows that he was unaware of the consequences of his behaviour, or even of the issues that existed already, which is both potentially a core reason for the problems of communication and why the decision was unexpected.

This particular situation will certainly make us improve our hiring and screening processes in order to improve the fit and I thank the HN community for pointing out ideas we can try, like remote working and better defined trial periods. It is also important that we improve employee communication and give more concise feedback to employees.

Unbabel is committed to being an international company, with employees from many countries. We pay well above Portuguese average and our goal is to hire the best individuals from anywhere in the world to be part of something meaningful.

We are working hard to solve a hard problem in human communication and take very seriously the fact that we need exceptional people in our team in order to to achieve our vision. We are fortunate to have an amazing team and will continue to strive for maintaining high standards and good culture fit.

Andreas acquired an unfortunate view of Portugal while he was here. We tried hard to make his experience a wonderful one and Portugal is without a doubt an amazing place to live. We have a great climate, it is very safe, most people speak English, it is a modern place and it is very easy to get 100MB internet speed in your home. It is close to the US and Portugal has always had a hacker mentally, since the days of the discoveries and Vasco da Gama, much due to the need to find solutions to being surrounded by Spain, which at the time was a problem. These and many other things is why Algarve (south of Portugal) was rated the best place in the world to retire by Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathleen-peddicord/best-places...).

If you are curious about Unbabel’s hiring practices and what is like to work at Unbabel, I would be happy to answer personally.

5 comments

>The offer letter he received, which was in English, stated clearly the “at will” nature of the contract

Just because you write something in a contract does not make it so. Labor laws exist for a reason, and chances are that the "at will" nature of the contract would have not been cause if you had fired him after the three-month trial period.

As someone who has flown halfway across the world for a job, I feel for Andreas (luckily for me things have turned out better than for him). The thing I'm trying to figure out is not only whether what happened was legal, but also whether what you did was, for lack of a better phrase, a dick move.

I can understand that hiring people can be difficult to get right. But if you ask someone to move to a different for you, if you decide it's not right in the end, not giving them some sort of severance (even if it's just 2 weeks pay) doesn't seem like the "startup" thing to do.

I've only been on the employee side of the relationship, so there might be things I'm not seeing. But if you hired 8 people in the same period (and you weren't planning on firing the guy from the outset), I can't see it being a cash flow problem. That money could be considered part of hiring costs, and the professional relationship could terminate as amicably as possible.

I don't think you really get credit for 'treating him with respect', if (according to your description) you seem to have caught him by surprise by letting him go immediately. Most people can't find jobs on a 24 hour notice. Loaning him money to help pay for rent is cool, but should also have been a sign to you that maybe he didn't have much money to deal with becoming jobless.

I can understand letting him go if he didn't fit the team. I can't understand letting him go after uprooting him without helping him transition back.

Let's look at the facts:

1.) Unbabel is a YC company that recently raised 1.5M

2.) Andreas is a contractor that was given a 3-month at-will contract, for a job that required him to move to Portugal from Sweden.

3.) He worked for 1 month and then was let go and given pay for 1.5 months.

4.) He managed to lose all his money that he made while working for Unbabel, due to a 4 month rental agreement that Unbabel helped him secure a week before Unbabel fired him.

I am not sure if the founders are psychopaths, but there are clearly psychopathic behaviors here. Here's an employee that put his trust into the company to move and sign a contract he couldn't understand, and the company did the following things:

1.) Could not even pay out 1.5 month of contract left (after raising 1.5M)

2.) Could not handle the rental situation

3.) Could not help this guy land on his feet

4.) Could not apologize to Andreas after the article has posted, or manage to help compensate

5.) Continues to answer with posts that try to emphasize how great it is to work for the company or work in Portugal

If this wasn't a YC company we would be alot harder on the company.

I agree with all of your analysis here, save one nitpick: I don't think the founders are psychopaths. I think they're in a bubble. I think they genuinely believe they did the right thing, because (like I said elsewhere in this thread), they're simply not thinking about Andreas and they're resolutely refusing to see things from his perspective.

I'd challenge vasco_ to take a look at what this situation is like from Andreas' perspective, and then explain why an apology or greater assistance to him was unnecessary or impossible.

"I agree with all of your analysis here, save one nitpick: I don't think the founders are psychopaths. I think they're in a bubble. I think they genuinely believe they did the right thing, because (like I said elsewhere in this thread), they're simply not thinking about Andreas and they're resolutely refusing to see things from his perspective."

To quote Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy) - emphasis be me:

"Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/) (or sociopathy /ˈsoʊsiəˌpæθi/) is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behavior. It may also be defined as a continuous aspect of personality, representing scores on different personality dimensions found throughout the population in varying combinations."

I think assuming someone is a psychopath is assuming the absolute worst about them in this context. I don't think it's really fair to anyone. There are plenty of other situations that result in diminished empathy and remorse, not all of them pathological in nature, and whether or not vasco_ is a psychopath doesn't affect the rightness or wrongness of his behavior from an objective standpoint.
As I mentioned in the HN comments to a previous post in this series, Portugese law does not allow for employees to be terminated before the end of the probationary period, even (or especially) in the case of indefinite term employment. Where the length of the employment contract is fixed in term, the law sets a fixed probationary period.

Andreas' complaint is that Unbabel violated Portugese labor law with regards to his employment, by terminating him prematurely, and nothing you've said indicates that his complaint is without merit.

Your comments here and elsewhere on HN reflect a consistently poor understanding or disregard of the legal and regulatory environment you have chosen to locate your business in. You're a startup, but that doesn't excuse you from following the law.

I don't think the OP has handled this well and I'd like to believe everything that you wrote, however, I keep getting stuck at this paragraph:

About a week before they fired me they helped me land a 4 month contract for a new apartment and even lent me the money for the deposit and two months rent to be deducted from future pay checks. When they fired me they deducted everything from my final pay, and since I couldn't afford to fulfill my rental contract I never got the deposit back.

Is that statement true? If it is, the most charitable thing I can say is that you are either deeply dishonest or else borderline incompetent. Surely you knew that Andreas was not a good fit by that time. Why would you go out of your way to screw him over? If it is not true, what actually happened?

'The offer letter he received, which was in English, stated clearly the “at will” nature of the contract. The relevant clause is below. - "While we hope that your employment with the Company will be mutually satisfactory, employment with the Company is for no specific period of time. As a result, either you or the Company is free to terminate your employment relationship at any time for any reason, with or without cause. This is the full and complete agreement between us on this term. Although your job duties, title, compensation and benefits, as well as the Company’s personnel policies and procedures, may change from time-to-time, the “at-will” nature of your employment may not be changed except by an express writing signed and dated by both you and the President of the Company."

This was also explained thoroughly upon signing of the actual contract, which was a standard contract of full time employment within the Portuguese law, which includes 3 months trial period, by default. At the time we did not have our contract translated to English, which is why we took great pains to make sure everything was clear, but shortly after all the contracts were translated to English.'

While there are similar terms in the German law (6 months in most cases) at least in Germany it makes a really bad impression if people get fired while in the trial period. This is about one step above "hellbanning" the employee, since you can rely on the fact that the next employer where you apply, will ask lots of question if you were fired in the trial period. Thus if a company fires people unfairly while the employee was in trial, the employee has reasons to react really harshly.

I really don't know how this is in Portugal, but if there is a similar culture, I can understand Andreas Wild completely.