[x0x0]

And great employees can always go to {google, fb, twitter, microsoft, salesforce, etc} and get paid $250-$300 / year in cash or cash equivalents, instead of $125-$150 plus lottery tickets.

In fact, I remember reading that round A is the worse time for an employee to join a startup: the large grants are gone, but the business isn't derisked, so your lottery tickets still have shit ev.

[JimboOmega]

Is the going rate $250-$300k these days?

Honestly, though - beyond just larger equity grants, I'd like to see companies have people get rewarded when the company does well... Through some kind of bonus (in equity or cash).

It seems like most companies either have bonuses that are pretty much an expected part of salary, or they have no bonus in any situation. I've only really been part of the latter, though.

[tdicola]

Depends on the area but 300k is probably pushing it outside management and less than 15+ years of experience. Most fresh out of college offers at big companies these days I hear are slightly north of 100k, so 150-200k for senior folks isn't out of the ordinary.

[x0x0]

For a highly experienced senior engineers capable of largely independent delivery of projects with roughly 8-10 years of experience on a platform, very deep understanding of at least one language with a bunch of experience in one or two more, etc etc seem to be getting about that much including grants at the big companies, particularly after being there perhaps 3 years and getting grants annually.

[deskamess]

What is a grant? Familiar with the term in an academic setting, but not that much in a work setting.

[vinceguidry]

http://fairmark.com/execcomp/grants.htm

[jfb]

In this context, it's a chunk of equity.

[humanrebar]

> $250-$300k Probably not the going rate, but to convince a top-notch dev to work in SF proper? Sure. Keep in mind that adjusted for cost of living, that's like $125k-$150k in most parts of the U.S., which isn't crazy for a top-notch systems engineer.

[vinceguidry]

Right. Ultimately participating in a startup as an employee and as a founder are two totally different life choices with very different skill sets required and very different arcs. Founders have to juggle making sure the company is on track building value with courting investors, keeping track of the balance sheet, designing the product because they're the only ones with enough skin in the game to do them effectively.

It's a different level of hard work. And a different set of circumstances if the business fails.

Honestly as a society, we should be less focused on raising the mostly already-high ethical standards of busy founders and more on providing education and support to the next generation of startup founders and startup employees. Employees can bounce to any number of happy-to-have-them bigcos because those skills are almost as rare as those you need to be a founder.

If you're looking for a bottleneck, look in the mirror. There's always more that can be done to build the community. There's a huge hunger for tech skills, tech companies, tech products.

[x0x0]

your comment is... well, less coolaid maybe, or less hero syndrome

Courting investors does not build value. Building a product builds value.

Plenty of people can and do design products.

In the case of an acquihire, founders, unlike employees, often clear a decent chunk of money (say $.5-$1.5mm) plus get an interesting job. (I personally know of several such cases).

There is plenty of unethical behavior by founders, but most of it isn't discussed in public or on HN, but rather privately between peers.

[JoshTriplett]

> instead of $125-$150 plus lottery tickets.

If you're working at a startup and getting $125-150k, you're lucky. Many people work at startups for half of that or less, plus those lottery tickets.

[ryandrake]

And, if you're working at a non-startup and getting $250-$300K, you are very, very lucky. That's far, far outside the realm of what I would consider believable, even in Silicon Valley. I may be a grossly underpaid sucker, but in my 15+ years of experience I've never seen even close to that. Jeez!

[jacquesm]

I have some first hand proof that google pays not-all-that-senior engineers that kind of money and more.

So if you're good then you may consider moving to one of the bigger players for a substantial increase in pay.

[dragonglass]

I can confirm this as well. I'm about 1 year out of college and just got a Google offer (salary + bonus + stock) that averages ~$240k per year.

[ryandrake]

Wow, Jesus. I think I'm going to delete the work history section from my resume and start looking around--I could double my salary.

[jacquesm]

Yep. I'll take my 10% ;)

Best of luck! And I really hope that works out for you.

[JoshTriplett]

How much of that was the base pay? I received a Google offer as well a couple of years ago, with a very concrete salary and a very handwavy "and there are bonuses and stock". Did your offer actually spell out how much the bonuses and stock were worth, or did you only find that out once you accepted the offer?

[dragonglass]

Haven't accepted yet (deciding between Google and a "hot" late-stage startup). The rough breakdown is $115k salary with 15% bonus if I "meet expectations" (presumably more if I "exceed expectations") + about ~$400k in stock over four years. Add in a sign-on bonus and we reach the $240k average.