[paulojreis]

I can't agree with you. HCI has a lot of impact on design, in spite of not being acknowledged (or even known) by most of the practitioners. What the aspiring UX designers are reading (in Smashing Magazine & others) is, mostly, rephrasings of HCI knowledge.

Most UX methods and guidelines come from HCI (and HCI, of course, comes from other disciplines).

[seanmcdirmid]

I'm betting you are on the HCI side and not the design side right? I'm a researcher, I know lots of HCI researchers, I know lots of designers, and the overlap in what the two do is so is slight. Most work on HCI is at the test, measure level, very much a science, while design is a different method from science in its own right.

Is knowing some HCI useful for design? Sure, but necessary? The best designers I've worked with have none, while going from HCI to design requires a drastic shift in mindset. Keep in mind that HCI first and foremost is a computer science discipline practiced exclusively by computer scientists. Design is mostly practiced by those trained as designers, in design school by people who have never been remotely near HCI. They are definitely analytic, but are not data driven (well, google, and in the web world where engineers have taken over, but that's a new trend and not necessarily a lasting one), their method is design thinking rather than the scientific method.

[paulojreis]

> Most work on HCI is at the test, measure level, very much a science

Most work on HCI was at the measure level. If you follow HCI research, you may notice a trend: lots of publications based on ethnographic methods, qualitative approaches and the like. HCI (as in "HCI academic research") is, nowadays, much closer (methodologically) to design thinking than to experimental psychology.

> I'm betting you are on the HCI side and not the design side right?

I do both. I work in the industry (UI design, front-end dev, evaluation) and I'm a PhD student.

> Keep in mind that HCI first and foremost is a computer science discipline

I've the opposite opinion on this. From all the disciplines that "inform" HCI, CS would be the least important. But ...

> practiced exclusively by computer scientists.

I guess you're right on this, at least in the academia. I do have the impression that most HCI researchers have a CS background. But, at least in my country, this is mostly because CS departments have much more funding to hire researchers than the others.

[seanmcdirmid]

> lots of publications based on ethnographic methods, qualitative approaches and the like. HCI (as in "HCI academic research") is, nowadays, much closer (methodologically) to design thinking than to experimental psychology.

Just because HCI researchers are trying to do design doesn't mean they have mastered it yet. CHI also doesn't yet know how to handle work from real designers (vs. HCI researchers talking about what they think those designers should be doing). It is more of an aspiration for the community at this point; they haven't asserted much leadership in the field yet (in terms of practice).

> I do both. I work in the industry (UI design, front-end dev, evaluation) and I'm a PhD student.

Did you go to design school? Can you sketch? How about your storyboarding skills? What is your experience with color? Do you have a portfolio ready to show off at any moment? I know I sound harsh, and I'm not trying to say you aren't a real designer, but CS people who say they practice design rarely cross those lines above. I'm a CS researcher, not a designer, and my wife (visual/interaction designer, design school background) calls out my BS all the time.

> I guess you're right on this, at least in the academia. I do have the impression that most HCI researchers have a CS background. But, at least in my country, this is mostly because CS departments have much more funding to hire researchers than the others.

As far as I can tell, there is very little HCI content that is geared toward designers. Those HCI courses that pre-exist are all aimed at computer scientists; the designers in the meantime have their own programs (e.g. interaction design departments) that are quite separated from what the engineers are doing.

[paulojreis]

> Did you go to design school? Can you sketch? How about your storyboarding skills? What is your experience with color? Do you have a portfolio ready to show off at any moment? I know I sound harsh, and I'm not trying to say you aren't a real designer, but CS people who say they practice design rarely cross those lines above. I'm a CS researcher, not a designer, and my wife (visual/interaction designer, design school background) calls out my BS all the time.

I'm not a computer scientist, nor a engineer. I graduated from a Comm. & Arts department, with a degree in a "hybrid" between Comm. Science, Design and IT. I do have a portfolio in UI design, I have a little experience in print medium, a solid understanding of colors and typography. I can sketch but I'm a lousy, lousy drawer. I also developed (and do the tutoring) on a small course in UX design, which my company gives to new trainees (engineers, most of the time).

I guess you pictured me as someone from CS with a interest in UI design. I'm not. I'm a UI designer and front-end developer. I'm also a researcher and I do user testing, which is why I also know HCI (and also why I can see the discipline as the foundation of IxD, even though most of the time it isn't acknowledged as such).

> As far as I can tell, there is very little HCI content that is geared toward designers. Those HCI courses that pre-exist are all aimed at computer scientists; the designers in the meantime have their own programs (e.g. interaction design departments) that are quite separated from what the engineers are doing.

I partially agree with you, here. Most HCI courses do exist in CS/engineering departments (at least, in my country). And - what is worst - they're taught by CS with little to zero experience in HCI. However, the interaction design programs - the ones geared towards designers - they do teach HCI. Maybe with a different label, maybe the teachers don't attribute the contents to HCI & HCI authors, but it is HCI nonetheless. Of course, the emphasis is totally different, and they focus a lot more on prototyping

[seanmcdirmid]

Fair enough, I'm sorry I had the wrong view. But you said you are a PhD student now...in what kind of department? CS? PhDs are very rare in design.

[paulojreis]

It's a joint degree between my alma mater (Comm. & Arts) and a Arts & Humanities department from another university (focused on the information sciences and journalism).

Think "social science approaches to technologically mediated phenomena".

[nchlswu]

> Most UX methods and guidelines come from HCI (and HCI, of course, comes from other disciplines).

I don't think you can simplify it to HCI preceding UX or UCD methodologies.

As you point out, HCI of course comes from other disciplines and just like the field of UX, it's borrowed a lot. HCI, Human Factors, Psychology, etc., all borrow techniques from others (as you've acknowledged)and a lot of what they do has been developed in parallel.

A lot of UX and design methods were developed in parallel by designers with at traditional design background or others without formal research backgrounds. Despite UX being characterized as a science or more rigorous than traditional design, it is largely a pragmatic practice.