[jayp]

Is it really irrelevant?

How do you suppose one tell which hedge fund will do better and which won't beforehand? Past performance? We know that's not a good indicator. If you can tell which hedge funds will do better in the future, you probably can tell which stocks will do better, and then why not just got it yourself without giving someone else 2 and 20?

We agree that S&P500 and hedge funds have different risk factors.

The point is that S&P500 is a lot less riskier and with better returns than an average hedge fund.

[tpeng]

Investing in stocks is more labor-intensive than investing in funds. I can identify a few great managers that will do very well over time, write them a check, and be done. By your logic, why should anyone give YC or a16z money? I mean, if I know that YC is better at picking startups, why don't I just go pick my own startups? It's two different skillsets.

It's clearly not the case that I cannot select a set of hedge funds that is less risky than the S&P500. Fixed income funds, for example are much less risky (ignoring for argument's sake some details like inflation risk). I don't know if the "average" hedge fund is more or less risky than the S&P500. Depends how you define average. But no one is investing in the average, you couldn't do so even if you wanted to.

[jayp]

On the other side of the coin, there are index funds for fixed income too. That would be a better compare against hedge fund that primarily uses fixed income assets. (For hybrid hedge funds, there are hybrid index funds too.) Once again, the 2 and 20 payment structure makes it very hard for it to beat a 0.2 fee index fund.

And as for clearly better funds like A16Z and YC now, there have many numerous that have held that crown before. Fees and fund expansion have resulted in worse results -- allowing newer players like A16Z and YC to take off.

My argument is that I don't think it's clear who'll beat the broad market (for their asset class) once the fees are taken out. I suppose we disagree about the value of high-fee managed funds (whether VC, PE, Hedge, etc.). That's fine.

Anyway, enough digression from the discussion on hand.

Good luck to the founders in making their value proposition clear. I am sure there are lots of people want to invest in hedge funds but don't have the funds to invest directly. They will find this appealing.

[tpeng]

I didn't say hedge funds shouldn't be benchmarked to their appropriate index, I said that hedge funds as a whole shouldn't be benchmarked to the S&P500 because they're not all equity funds. In fact, the majority of hedge fund allocated dollars are NOT invested in directional equity (not including strategies like merger arb that technically invest in equities but have totally different risk/reward from the market). It's not "the other side of the coin", it's my point exactly.