[chenelson]

Returned devices often do not work--that's why they're being exchanged.

Also, just on the carrier's corporate retail side (small in comparison), we're talking about over 2,500 locations, over 25,000 reps, and over 500,000 new monthly adds and upgrades. Serialization is very expensive and does not eliminate the tricky human.

Also, even a disabled device is still worth parts.

[mikeash]

I don't think I understand what you're proposing.

Before, I thought "handset exchange" would be something where you bring in an old phone to get credit towards buying a new one. Like trading in a car. And like trading in a car, they'll want to make sure the old phone is actually worth something before they buy it from you.

Now... you're proposing a warranty exchange? Surely they check to make sure the device is actually eligible for the warranty (i.e. that you bought it, and within a certain timeframe) before they accept it?

Or is it something else entirely?

The fact that it would be worth the value of the parts is a good one, but not related to the question of whether Airplane Mode makes for a loophole.

[chenelson]

Within 14 days, anyone can cancel or exchange.

So, here's an overly complicated example: 1. Steal Nexus 5 2. Buy Nexus 5 from local retailer 3. Exchange the back from the stolen Nexus 5 with the clean Nexus 5 4. Return stolen Nexus 5 for full refund

What if they try to power-up or troubleshoot the stolen Nexus 5? While you're exchanging the back, damage the power leads.

[mikeash]

I assume the back is where the serial number lives?

Seems like that would work... once. The ID and credit check requirements would probably not make it a viable long-term solution though.

And, again, irrelevant to Airplane Mode.

[chenelson]

I don't care about Airplane Mode--if the device has been killed, why would one wish to power it on?

So, what about prepaid? No credit check or ID required. One just requires front money.

Also, keep in mind that the carriers have been fighting Identity Theft and handset upgrades for quite some time. For instance, people steal an identity and use it to get 5 free handsets. This is a on-going problem. Identity is a hard problem.

Also, a swap doesn't even require a purchase--just sleight of hand. If we go through the sale process, if the rep turns their back, I may be able to swap.

And this doesn't even take into account inside activity. I worked at T-Mobile for 8 years, starting as a part-time sales rep and ending a senior manager of business process. During my time, we fired the entire market of Houston twice.

There are many types of thieves, but in the case of those attempting to support a habit, with their will, they will find a way. Some claim they have no choice.

Finally, don't assume a perfect system. Telecom is a mess.

[mikeash]

Apologies, I thought you were continuing the original discussion of how Airplane Mode could provide a loophole.

Anyway, the system doesn't have to be perfect. If you significantly raise the barrier to turning stolen phones into cash, you'll significantly reduce the rate of theft.

[chenelson]

Even if it were possible to raise the barrier on turning stolen phones into cash, it does not follow that it will reduce the rate of theft in the least. Do you think those that risk so much for so little are just going to roll over and die? Did you not learn the lesson of Whac-A-Mole?

If you really care about the victims, you'd use the warrant not to attempt to render tools to trash dumps, but instead use the warrant to query the networks. You know, perhaps give SWAT something legitimate to do... That seems like a deterrent for future thieves and a way to catch current thieves; or at least easier than catching copper thieves.