[csirac2]

Really? Because although I came from Ruby (and before that, C, ASM), I spent 4 years in Perl with half of that doing Moose stuff. Now I'm doing Python, C, and hardware stuff.

I really miss Moose. Pythonistas generally can't believe I could possibly miss anything from the Perl world, and usually aren't interested in hearing my reasons why.

But honestly - I miss doing 75% of my work in bashing out an declarative specification with Moose, especially with the type system (as slow as that can be at runtime; the work-around is making objects immutable which leads to cleaner code anyway).

Python does have the traits package by enthought, which has some vaguely similar stuff in it but nobody seems to use it. Being out of the ruby loop for a while, what's ruby's answer to Moose?

[terrabakky]

For Python, take a look at: https://github.com/frasertweedale/elk

[csirac2]

Nice! I've been pointed to this in the past actually, glad to see it's progressed. Trying it out now.

[welder]

An alternate perspective: I've used Perl for 10+ years, but switched to Python 5 years ago. Moose was a hack to bring Java patterns to Perl, but I feel Java patterns are not developer friendly these days.

Python patterns are still solid today, so I gladly choose doing things the Pythonic way over the Perl way. Not to mention the meta reasons to use a language (community, libraries, ecosystem).

[autarch]

> Moose was a hack to bring Java patterns to Perl

Say what now? Moose draws from most heavily from CLOS and Smalltalk, as filtered through Perl 6. I don't know of any Java influence in Moose at all.

[perigrin]

There was a little. Mostly stevan and Yuval going "oh god not that".

[csirac2]

I've gone C/C++/Java -> Ruby -> Perl -> Perl+Moose -> Python.

Moose is the opposite of Java: it has a type system which actually does work for you and brings you amazing helpful stuff for free, whereas Java makes you go through rituals and pain to use a type-system that mostly only ever gets in your way.

[oldmanjay]

I'm fine with the idea that you like perl but the way you present your statement, it's almost as if you consider not understanding how to use the java type system as a compelling argument.

[csirac2]

That's an interesting observation (that being fine with the idea of someone using modern perl is a thing), but perhaps there's a grain of truth to my level of Java ignorance - the last Java project of my own was written in the 1.4/1.5 days and left me feeling that getting reusable code out of huge towers of inheritance and interfaces seemed like more work than it should be.