[3327]

Why? Because he is the best Russian double agent operation in the history of espionage ? Because he skilled gov't secrets citing domestic spying where as the vast majority of what he revealed is actually international espionage? Which although some may / may not support is legal and any country with that sort of ability and know how would only WISH they could do it too.

Medal of Freedom? For the record I was pro-Snowden and for a very long time thought the same - NSA and TOR, etc unwarrented secret courts, etc. Some of them need change and are wrong I agree. But if Snowden was not a a double agent or for that matter a Moscow pawn, he would have had more finesse with the information he released.

People are naive, myself included - no one knows what it takes to keep people safe. Look at the world around you and see whats going on and don't take it for granted.

[hyperbovine]

> Look at the world around you and see whats going on and don't take it for granted.

This statement is so ironic that it is almost dumbfounding. Look up the term "blowback". The U.S. (in particular, our bellicose foreign policy and insatiable appetite for oil) is the originator of many if not all of the geopolitical disasters which jeopardize our national security. That is to say, the security apparatus that Snowden has so deftly undermined is in large part responsible for creating the very phenomenon it claims to counteract. I don't care who he's working for, the fact that hundreds of millions of people around the world are now aware of this fact, including a large number of Americans, makes him a hero.

[foobarqux]

In terms of real politik it looks like a net win for the US, which is presumably why foreign policy hasn't changed much.

[nostromo]

I doubt he's working with the Russians for one simple reason: If the Russians got our classified documents, they wouldn't release them to the public. Most intelligence is more powerful if your opponent doesn't know you know it.

[krapp]

I doubt he's working for the Russians either, but the damaging effect of the disclosures might be worth more to Russia than the actual intelligence itself.

[joshlegs]

> People are naive, myself included - no one knows what it takes to keep people safe. Look at the world around you and see whats going on and don't take it for granted.

So you're saying we need a government babysitter then? Sure, there are some things you need a government to help protect you from. How, though, is reading all my emails and recording all my phone calls keeping ME safe? Are they protecting me from myself? No. It's an excuse for the powers that be to control the population and expand their power.

You hear that NSA? You're a bunch of schmucks. I don't care how many watchlists you have me on.

[Karunamon]

Schmucks? No no no no no, that is a clever ruse that you should not fall for.

There is an agenda here. We may not be able to see all of it at once, but it exists, and projecting incompetence is part of it.

I wouldn't go so far as malice (history's greatest monsters thought they were doing right by their country), but to portray the NSA's behavior as incompetent does a great disservice to you, me, and everyone else who should be outraged by this. We should feel as if these intrusive searches and such are a direct attack on us and our culture and our country.

Because that's what they are.

[gonzo]

OK, so working at the NSA == terrorism?

[dllthomas]

Of course not. Even if you believe that "working at the NSA" is necessarily an example of terrorism (and I certainly don't) what you would have is a subset relationship not equality.

[AndrewBissell]

The only reason Snowden is in Russia is because the U.S. government revoked his passport while he was in Moscow. So if you want someone to blame for that, look no further than the State Department.

[csandreasen]

They revoked his passport the day before he left Hong Kong [1]. He traveled to Russia on what turned out to be an invalid travel document issued by the Ecuadorian embassy in London [2] (same one that Julian Assange is holed up in).

EDIT: Added citations

[1] http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-source-nsa-leaker-snowdens...

[2] http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/02/ecuador-rafael-...

[A_COMPUTER]

Is there a reason that a country cannot just let someone in if they want, even without a valid passport? What exactly is preventing his travel if everybody is OK with it except for the USA?

[bronson]

Seems to me the lack of finesse is a pretty clear indication he was working unplanned and alone.

[zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC]

If some secret police came to your house to kill you because they determined that that's needed in order to keep people safe, would you still stand by your argument? If not, why not?

[3327]

Thats a loaded question and bit paranoid IMO. Has the secret police come to anyones house in the US? All the stuff NSA is doing is not to raid your house. My stance was and is:

that Domestic Spying is wrong but Snowden revealed international espionage way more than domestic. I am fine with international espionage its why I pay taxes and if the USA stops guess whats going to happen via China ?

[zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC]

Nope, it's neither loaded nor paranoid, it's simply a conclusion from your justification that "no one knows what it takes to keep people safe". Either you believe that noone knows, but those people who decide in secret, in which case a secret police killing citizens should also be fine with you if they decide that that's what's needed, or you don't actually believe that justification yourself and do think that the public does actually have something meaningful to say on the topic, in which case you would at least have to justify why that would not apply to mass surveillance.

Now, if your stance is that spying on my private life (not being a US citizen, and not being a public/political/military figure either) by your government is something you like to support, then you are an asshole, in particular if you are at the same time telling me we are "friends". I mean, I hope you do see the difference between keeping tabs on foreign military and mass-surveilling the population of allies?

[FreeDumb]

Two words: Brandon Mayfield. Mis-identified by the FBI as being related to the Madrid train bombings. The Spanish police told the FBI his fingerprint didn't match. The Feds used National Security Letters to search his house and computer and plant bugs. And, finding NO evidence he ever traveled to Spain, deduced he was a master terrorist, capable of travelling under false papers. Locked up for weeks in solitary - under a fake name - as a material witness. Oh yes, it can happen here!