| >Dead civilians are on the heads of those countries defending themselves from military takeovers by non-democratic juntas, like Putin's There is no evidence that supports your argument about Russian military takeover of Donetsk and Luhansk regions. You are talking about something so significant that must have left some verifiable trace, right? > (Karma 34 account.) You don't provide a single footnote, and I actually provide sources to my claims. I give you simple questions and you prefer to ignore them. Yes, I rarely participate in internet discussions. Is appealing to my low karma your last and most powerful argument? > Especially with satellite pictures, recorded conversations, etc. So, let's bring these to the table? Edit: >Edit: Mainstream news references, not "therealnews", of moved tanks. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/14/us-ukraine-crisis-.... 1. Money quote from NATO statement from Reuters article that you've provided: "but where they came from is in dispute." > There are similar articles about the BUK anti air system 2. There is no solid evidence for the claim that BUK came from Russia also. But let's assume that it did, just for the sake of not forking the discussion. 3. What's wrong with "therealnews" interviews with acclaimed experts which credentials you are free to check? >You seem to not argue against that Putin lied about military involvement before the Krim takeover. 4. Yes, what I argue is that the current insurgency is supported by population of Donetsk and Luhansk regions and I've provided sources for that statement. Which means that Kiev Government is at war with (part of) it's own population. 5. What I also state is that reunification with Russia has had overwhelming support from the people of Crimea. >You claim that there aren't enough proofs (and/or that all Western media lies) that his junta is doing exactly the same thing now, just because it looks so similar in action/time? What "same thing" are you talking about? (I am asking this just to be sure that we are talking about the same thing). > (I am sorry if this makes you sound stupid/dishonest, but...) I's OK. I appreciate that you are assuming good faith on my part. Edit 2: >Edit 3: Russia shot artillery at Ukraine (just more lies, of course): http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28476153 Money quote from the BBC article: "the US says it has evidence that Russia has fired artillery across the border targeting Ukrainian military positions". The US has also said that pre-invasion Iraq has had WMD. And that Assad has used nerve gas. |
>>Yes, what I argue is that the current insurgency is supported by population of Donetsk and Luhansk regions and I've provided sources for that statement
(I don't bother to look up your references, since it certainly won't be from mainstream media or similar.)
You are contradicted by Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_People%27s_Republic#Pub...
In a poll [..] in the first half of February 2014, 33.2% of polled in Donetsk Oblast believed "Ukraine and Russia must unite into a single state".[27]
According to a poll [...] 66% of Donetsk residents view their future in a united Ukraine
A second poll conducted 26–29 March showed that 77% of residents condemned the takeover of administrative buildings, while 16% support such actions. Furthermore, 40.8% of Donetsk citizens support rallies for Ukraine's unity, while 26.5% support rallies which are pro-Russia
And so on.
>> Money quote from the BBC article: "the US says it has evidence that Russia has fired artillery across the border targeting Ukrainian military positions". [Etc.]
The first thing I check is contradicted by Wikipedia (that and its sources is a conspiracy too?).
The second "argument" I read is "We can ignore that, USA just lies". (It is hardly just USA that claimed Assad used nerve gas. Any proofs against? Never mind, you read it in Putin's media so it must be true.)
Seriously? That is what you have?
I have spent too much time on this. :-(