[lipoicacid]

Are you including indigestible carbs (fiber) as part of natural whole grain sources, fruits (pectin), oats (soluble fibers) as part of your "not particularly satiating" carbs? I spent 6 months on paleo, 12 months on keto, and 6 months cyclical keto. I have found that complex carbs have helped my training and weight loss far more than restricting carbs in general. It seems that proper carb sources are just as satiating as loading my bowels with red meat (and the outcome is vastly preferred).

[js2]

I don't eat red meat but maybe a few times a year. My protein is mostly from fish, eggs, greek yogurt, fowl, and protein powder/bars sparingly.

I don't find carbs in any form particularly satiating. Unless I have protein and/or fat with a meal, I'm hungry quickly after. So steel cut oats, not satiating on their own. But if I add say crushed walnuts to the oats and have a couple eggs or greek yogurt too, I fine almost till dinner. The more refined the carbs, the worse it is for me.