[firstOrder]

This article goes over much of what happens, but seems to have missed the point of things.

It talks about how the mango went to some backwoods provinces of China - probably not electrified, where a farmer would be considered well-off if they owned a single animal - and how some had superstitious thoughts about it. How is that any different than the uproar we see in the rural US about biology and Darwin being taught in schools, since it contradicts some bizarre superstitions they have out there? In 2009 one of these rural religious types shot dead Dr. George Tiller in Kansas, as Bill O'Reilly and others were on the radio and television talking about how Tiller was the tool of the Devil. 1960s China is played up as being all crazy in this article, in contrast to what I assume would be a sane, modern US. The reality is rural idiocy, class resentments and so forth exist in both places at both times.

I also think the point about the mangoes is missed. It would be like saying an American flag displayed in a political demonstration was worshipped, or some doves let free during a peace demonstration were worshipped, or the CND peace symbol displayed during an anti-war demonstration was worshipped. The mangoes represented an end to much of the strife of the Cultural Revolution, and were understood as such. Most of the militant students were sent off to live in the countryside for a year or two, to cool them down and get them acquainted with the realities of the country. The mangoes represented peace, an end of strife, most people in Beijing understood it in this way, and did see them as a positive symbol. This either escaped the writer, or they are writing the same kind of propaganda they're accusing the Chinese of writing.

[scarmig]

It's fair to say, though, that Americans do worship the American flag with a religious fervor, to an extent other countries don't do. A kid who disrespects it isn't going to be taken to the countryside and shot by vigilantes, but he might very well be beaten up in the schoolyard. Because freedom and the troops.

Politicized symbols usually end up used as a substitute for the things they actually are supposed to signify, not as something that merely accompanies the signified. Here the mangos might've symbolized peace and unity of the country, but in fact they were a tool to rebuild the power of a totalitarian, murderous ruler who was responsible for the destruction of countless lives and cultural artifacts.

[rdtsc]

> It would be like saying an American flag displayed in a political demonstration was worshipped, or some doves let free during a peace demonstration were worshipped

Good points. But it is worshipped if not more so. "Can't let the flag touch the ground". That is just one such thing. Other things are worshipped and revered at the same level -- the Constitution. For large swathes of this country Constitution is not too far from the 10 Commandments. They go hand in hand. Founding Fathers might as well have halos around their heads instead of wigs.

The flag and those things is pretty close to the mango. The mango is funny to us now, it wasn't funny for them locally. I would guess Constitution worship or large religiousness in US is probably just as funny to other Western 1st world countries.

> How is that any different than the uproar we see in the rural US about biology and Darwin

But it is not. Nobody said it was. Just because they had crazy cargo cult worship of a mango doesn't mean we don't have irrational crazies thinking earth was made by some sky daddy 5k years ago who then planted dinosaur bones, along with fake C-14 backdating, to "test" us. There are hundreds of thousands of people who believe that.

They are not on HN, not in your circle of friends. But they vote and have purchasing power, make decisions about our future as well. That is very scary.

Heck it would have a lot better to just have them believe in a magic mango. It would probably be a lot safer.

[westiseast]

I suspect you've missed the point - it's about how during an unusual period of China's history, amidst extreme pressure and confusion, a random item took on incredible and I intended significance.

The American flag is a bad comparison - it does have a fixed meaning, it is intentionally imbued with significance that is widely recognized.

The religious example similarly bad. You're talking about people who already have a strong set if beliefs that are being directly challenged - not randomly assigning meaning to meaningless gifts.

I think we can manage to discuss China without it being an attack on China, or without trying to bring up comparisons with the US to 'balance the scales'

[slurry]

To me, the article plays this as slightly humorous and kitschy, whereas your comment makes it seem much darker, especially with the Dr. Tiller comparison. One thing you get wrong is, this began among workers at Tsinghua University, not rural dirt farmers. So if this be idiocy (and that seems uncharitable at best to me) it is urban and not rural in character.

[rdtsc]

> To me, the article plays this as slightly humorous and kitschy,

It was all like that until you get to the end and find out that people (with at least on specific example) were _killed_ over making a disparaging remark about the "mango". Others were punished for not holding it "reverently" enough.

It sounds funny now it wasn't funny then though.

Idiocy started as urban but it was then pushed and taken advantage of. They built mugs and products with mangoes on it. It wasn't just a local fad.

[jessaustin]

Yes it seems incongruous to assume that factory workers were likely to be rural, or even that any reader of TFA would be likely to make that mistaken assumption. I'd hazard that few enough American factory workers would have had much contact with mangoes in 1968, so GP comment is doubly bizarre.