[davidjgraph]

I don't agree. The difference is you vote for your own government (Russia has a democratic voting system, how the candidates are selected...well...). If you vote in a government that does that to its people, that's your business.

Foreign governments owe you nothing, you can't reasonably complain about them abusing your rights if you put them in a position where they can.

[bayesianhorse]

It's not democracy unless quite a few conditions are met. Elections alone aren't satisfactory. Unless there is free speech, (completely) universal suffrage and honest authorities, there can't be a democracy.

Russia restricts free speech and universal suffrage through relatively "efficient" means, compared with China. Putin ensures his power with a lot less effort than the CCP. Also "honesty" in Russian authorities is something of a bad joke...

[gtirloni]

By your requirements for democracy, there is not a single democratic country on Earth.

And Russia restricts free speech better than China? Although I wouldn't argue Russia is a bastion of free speech, I do talk with my Russian friends over Facebook, Skype, email, etc, make jokes about and criticize their (and our) governments just fine without any problems so far. I cannot say the same of my Chinese colleagues, which I rarely interact and which have been so conditioned to suppress their opinions that even while visiting a foreign country where they were free to say whatever they wanted in private, even then refrained from doing so.

So yeah, both countries are quite bad when compared to the freedom heaven that the US is (wait.. what? NSA?) but I wouldn't go that far to put Russia and China in the same basket (unless we're willing to put all sufficiently advanced countries together, since it's pretty clear a great majority are already spying on their own citizens)

[glaugh]

Fwiw, Freedom House puts China as slightly less free than Russia, but both are in pretty good shape. (Freedom House is highly regarded by political scientists for this sort of thing.)

http://www.freedomhouse.org/sites/default/files/Sub%20Catego...

[bayesianhorse]

There is not a single perfect democracy. But there are countries that come very close, and others don't. In Russia, there is no Chance anyone but Putin is elected. There is no division of power, the courts and parliament are directly under Putin's control. So are major industrial corporations. Journalists are murdered by the dozens in Russia, with particular emphasis on those who criticize the government. Which might explain why there is no mainstream media that criticizes the government any more.

The opposition is ridiculous. If any oppositionals develop an effective platform or support, they usually go to jail, are murdered or disappear.

In Moscow, you can't hold up fake signs without getting arrested. Protests and demonstrations are only ever "allowed" if they are pro-Putin.

And let's not get started on the extremely corrupt bureaucracy. Putin couldn't hold a fair election or mandate a fair rule of law even if he wanted to.