[ZenPro]

I cannot get around the fact that he was offered leniency (6 months in a low security prison) in return for a plea bargain.

He rejected that deal, opting instead for a trial in which prosecutors would have been forced to justify their pursuit of him.

Fair enough - noble and principled if a little foolhardy.

Then he committed suicide.

Given the choice of ending my life or taking 6 months in jail; I know which is the more mentally stable option to take.

[1stop]

You are ascribing your own situation to the problem and pretending it is the same.

Everyone thinks they are completely reasonable, but the fact is our brain convinces us we are even when we are not.

Unless you've actually been someone else, how can you know what it is like?

[ZenPro]

Just to be clear; your assertion is that no human being make a reasonable or educated guess about their behaviour in a situation that is unfamiliar?

That is your assertion?...because it is nonsense if it is. As humans we make effective, educated guesses about unfamiliar scenarios all of the time.

I also don't physically need to be charged with wire fraud to know that I would not take my own life over it leaving behind my children. Children, if convicted today, I would be able to see again before Christmas.

However - if you want to get [really] meta over the subject then your logic defeats itself.

Unless you have actually been me how can you know that I am not completely accurate in my assessment of myself?

Your stated position has rendered you unable to disagree with me. Since you are not me.

[1stop]

The irony of this complete garble of a comment trying to convince people that we are always reasonable is quite amazing.

Have you done that on purpose?

Anyway, in the off chance you aren't intending to do an awesome display of irony:

- People can be reasonable, but they are bad at knowing when they are and aren't.

- Empathy is not applying someones situation to yourself, but instead applying yourself to someones situation (This is non-commutative).

- Empathy can help reason but is not required by it.

I'm not really suggesting anything controversial so I'm surprised at your adversarial responses. It's almost like we are just stuck in a "Someone is wrong on the internet" loop here.

[ZenPro]

So, ultimately, your assertion is that people cannot make educated guesses about their behaviour in unfamiliar situations?

OK. The world is awash with people receiving a criminal sentencing and then killing themselves. It's unfortunate we don't have any data whatsoever to disprove that...

Well done, Sir. You win the internet today. Aaron Schwarz taking his own life instead of facing a maximum of 6 months in prison is completely normal.

[1stop]

> So, ultimately, your assertion is that people cannot make educated guesses about their behaviour in unfamiliar situations?

I didn't say that at all, but you do love a strawman don't you.

> Aaron Schwarz taking his own life instead of facing a maximum of 6 months in prison is completely normal.

Plea bargain of 6 months + felony charge was turned down. He was facing ~35 years + felony charge. But don't let the facts stop your rightousness ;-)

> It's unfortunate we don't have any data whatsoever to disprove that...

But we do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide#Psychosocial_states

You'll note that: Hopelessness, loss of pleasure, depression and anxiousness all increase the likelihood of suicide. It's pretty reasonable for us to assume Aaron was feeling at least one of those. Again, lets not let fact or data get in the way of your "informed" opinion.

[ZenPro]

Oh dear -

1. Misunderstanding of felony charges are stated and subsequently sentenced. Check.

2. Misunderstanding of compared suicide rates to criminal sentencing. Check.

3. Comnplete misreading of my sarcasm reagrding lack of data. Check.

You are just emabrassing yourself, honestly.

You could have every data point in the world suggesting the factors that contribute to suicidal feeling.

None of it proves criminal sentencing results in the normative behaviour of suicide. Again we are returning to common sense, we know that criminals are not killing themselves on masse.

This is getting stupid now. You are clearly not trolling and genuinely think you are on to something.

Suicide is not normal neither is it normal for anyone to kill themselves in response to the potential of being found guilty.

It happens, but it is not normal.

Please feel free to continue arguing. It is interesting to watch someone logically eat their own argument.