[deedubaya]

Bootstrap, like jQuery, was a great thing at one time. It still is a great thing to some people.

Whenever I see default Bootstrap styles out in the wild though, I get pretty disgusted.

Never trust a company that uses default Bootstrap styles in their production apps. It just shouts "I don't care" or "I don't know any better."

[xtrumanx]

All it shouts to me is that they were probably more focused on more important things. My mantra is functionality before design.

I've seen a bunch of stuff submitted here to HN that was nothing more than a landing page with a sign up form. I've rarely (if not never) signed up.

However, give me a page with a working proof-of-concept, I'll likely sign up regardless if it's built on default Bootstrap styling.

Reminds me of the days when people's biggest complaints about Reddit was that it looked bad.

[maaaats]

Rather "I have better things to do", actually developing what matters for the page, and then focusing on the design later.

[opendais]

Actually, to me it screams MVP by a backend focused developer. It signals the exact opposite to me as long as it is a company of only 1-2 people. They know what they are doing but have no design chops...which is much better than the reverse.

[andybak]

Or "they invested time in their product rather choosing to reinvent the wheel on their marketing website".

Sounds like a pretty positive indicator to me.

[vezzy-fnord]

I don't like it when people invoke "don't reinvent the wheel". Yes, if you're reimplementing standard library functionality, then you could talk about reinventing the wheel.

But a lot of the time it really means "Let frameworks do everything for you." Don't reinvent the wheel, but feel free to reimplement subsets of the wheel that aren't all too tailored to your purpose. In fact, if you're a programmer, you probably do that all the time.

Particularly when it comes to web design, there is no specific "wheel" to speak of. I'm all for using Bootstrap... as a framework, not as a template you copy and paste.

I can make exceptions for local web applications (like router interface panels) and small, one-trick apps, though.

[andybak]

> Let frameworks do everything for you

I'm happy to let a framework do everything for me - assuming the 'everything' you speak of is done well.

Implicit in your statement is an assumption that this will be bad - I'm not disagreeing that there are downsides, but please don't hide these inside implied reasons. Bring them out and let's debate them explicitly.

[alttab]

Letting frameworks do everything for you usually means you're not doing anything interesting.

For many products however, these days an "interesting" interface doesn't sell it unless you are pinterest or something. 99% of the time, users are at your page/app for some level of function. Rarely is the function essentially the form.

[opendais]

Also a valid interpretation. :)

[bryanlarsen]

Whenever an iPhone or Android app doesn't follow the standard styling for the platform -- aka if it looks different -- complaints flood in.

Whenever a web app doesn't look different, complaints flood in.

Consistent styling on disparate web pages is a good thing, in my optinion.

[andybak]

There's nothing more loathsome to my eye than an 'innovative' user-interface produced by someone who thinks creativity trumps UX.

The number of times I want to be 'surprised and delighted' by an interface can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Most of the time I'm trying to achieve something other than appreciate the genius of the designer involved.

[wuliwong]

Yea, it is interesting isn't it. Have you ever come across anyone trying to explain why? I've wondered but haven't done any research.

[andybak]

So how about all those Bootstrap sites that aren't immediately recognisable? Is it Bootstrap per se that causes your bile to rise or merely insufficiently customized Bootstrap?

For example - I think many of the templates here: https://wrapbootstrap.com/ are rather lovely. Do they elicit your disgust?

[alexgaribay]

Thanks for that link. I use bootstrap in all my projects. One of the templates on the landing page had exactly what I was looking to do in an upcoming design. I may just buy it and save my self from some of the time I would need to spend on custom design.

[angrymouse]

Have a look at the Angular website. It is hardly anything beyond the Bootstrap style. I understand what you're saying. A lack of concern about external presentation can be a warning sign but it's not exclusive nor a reliable indicator as other commentator's have mentioned

[chdir]

Re-inventing the wheel is your thing then so be it. Why stop at bootstrap, stop trusting all those using jQuery too.

[andybak]

Why stop there? Be suspicious of existing programming languages and network protocols. Let's write assembly and push raw bits over the wire.

Reductio ad absurdum...

[alttab]

You still need to compile the assembly. Do you trust your compiler?