[Dewie]

> One thirtysomething told me about a friend at Facebook who half-seriously claims to avoid sun exposure for fear of premature wrinkling.

From what I've read, there isn't much health-benefit from sun exposure. You have the vitamin D thing, but it seems that that can be taken care of with diet/supplements.

Obviously going for a Dracula lifestyle is a big inconvenience. But it seems that wearing a good dose of sun screen and trying to avoid tanning and sunburns might be a good investment if you want to avoid premature ageing, and, if you don't care about that, at least reduce the chances of skin cancer.

[BSousa]

I hate the sun as much as any other programmer, but I can safely say, after moving to a place with a lot of sunshine, my mood improved a lot. Even 10 minutes in the balcony just staring at a clear blue sky makes me more productive and calmer than any pill/supplement or exercise has done. And for my wife (suffers from SAD/depression) it has been a god send. Has been 2 years since any major incident, which corresponds exactly with the change of climate.

Do remember it isn't only the Vitamin D. The sun also helps regulate a lot of inner processes that artificial light mess up (circadian cycle being one of them).

[hga]

I've found that light therapy can make a big difference, for me, getting 8 hours of sleep instead of 7. I use this very handy device: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001I45XL8/

[mattgreenrocks]

Where'd you end up?

[BSousa]

South of Spain and now considering moving to South of Portugal. I didn't came from a completely 'dark' place like London (Oporto, North of Portugal) but even that small change made significant improvements in my life.

[Dewie]

This seems to be a common sentiment. Personally I haven't noticed much of a difference in my mood between summers and winters. There might be a difference, but it hasn't been enough to be obvious to me.

[BSousa]

I never did before either, but something did change. It may be just the sunshine, it maybe the location (very close to the sea) or just the job, but I can say that now when I don't have the sunshine, I miss it, which was something I never did before.

I guess it may also depend on the difference between your winter and summer. I'm assuming a New York or London summer wouldn't be the same as a Florida/California/South of Spain summer.

[Dewie]

> I never did before either, but something did change. It may be just the sunshine, it maybe the location (very close to the sea) or just the job, but I can say that now when I don't have the sunshine, I miss it, which was something I never did before.

I lived in Madrid for almost 5 months, but I don't quite long back to the sun and warmth. It's nice, certainly nicer than where I am most of the time. But I don't pine for it.

> I guess it may also depend on the difference between your winter and summer. I'm assuming a New York or London summer wouldn't be the same as a Florida/California/South of Spain summer.

I live in coastal (more or less) Norway, so while the temperature differences aren't that great, there is of course a marked difference in the amount of sunlight. Also less rain in the summer, I think.

[axaxs]

From personal experience, no amount of supplements replaces the value of sun on the skin. Then again I'm approaching 30, so what do I know.

[hessenwolf]

My wife has darker skin and really obviously has to be in strong sunshine every once in a while to maintain healthy skin.

I, redbeard, read a book nearby under the sun umbrella.

[Dewie]

What is healthy skin?

[yardie]

Healthy looking skin would be the correct term, I guess.

Makeup foundation plays a similar function as the melanin the skin produces. When sun exposed the amount of melanin is high and hides the small imperfections in the skin. I'm from the caribbean so during the winter, when the sun is less visible, my melanin levels drop. Parts of my skin look ashen and spotty since they have less pigment then other area.

Come summertime I seriously look 10 years younger.

Some people go too far and seriously distress their skin, producing wrinkles, premature aging, and increased chances of cancer.

[hessenwolf]

Exactly what Yardie said.

[Cthulhu_]

You call it "premature ageing"... but getting some sun like the average human being does isn't premature, it's normal / average / things people that don't really care do.

[Dewie]

On the other hand, it can be said to be premature for the kind of people who specifically seek out the sun, trying to get a deep and even tan, spend a lot of time sunbathing to that end, etc.

Maybe I shouldn't have said "premature". We don't really know what is more healthy, whether it is how people normally do things or whether they should take care to do something else. We've done some things historically, perhaps due to adaption or necessity, but that is just a testament to the fact that it works, not that the practice is healthy or optimal. So I'm not immediately sold on what is average or normal.

[seren]

This is really off topic but I have just read recently something hinting that too much sunscreen could actually increase the risk of skin cancer [1], i.e. regular and safe exposure was a better strategy that going Dracula. The hard part might be to know when you are at risk and when not.

[1] http://nautil.us/issue/14/mutation/america-is-getting-the-sc...

[Dewie]

There doesn't seem to be much in this article that would discourage me from usually wearing sunscreen. There is this:

> “There wasn’t and there still isn’t absolute evidence” that supplements are bioequivalent to sunshine.

which means that I can't necessarily get away with just vitamin D supplements. Other than that, the article hardly emphasizes Australia's stance on vitamin D supplements, only that right now only dark-skinned people are advised to take it. But they don't say if people were advised to take supplements when avoiding the sun, which might be a crucial thing to do if they were to avoid the sun altogether. So I can't be sure if the vitamin D deficit was due to lack of sun exposure, or mostly due to one-sided marketing (avoid the sun, but don't do anything else to compensate).

Last summer I read a chronicle by a doctor that said that 10 minutes of (naked) exposure was adequate. There was a lot of fuss about getting enough vitamin D.

> People regularly exposed to daily sun have a lower risk of getting melanoma and also have a higher survival rate if they do3 because regular sun exposure protects against burning,

Well this doesn't actually seem to apply to someone who is mindful of the amount of sun exposure he gets. It is of course more sensible to have a little exposure over time to the sun to build up a tan than to spend spurts of time in the sun and risk getting sun burnt. But that doesn't really apply to a person who might be very careful to put on sun screen when he is spending more time in the sun.

[watwut]

The efficacy of vitamin D taken from food and supplements is under discussion. It is not clear whether it is as effective as being exposed to sun.

[Dewie]

Well is it clear that vitamin D from the Sun is at least as effective as vitamin D from diet? ;)

[collyw]

Is it not the case that Norway and dark places have a far higher suicide rate? I moved from the UK to Spain, took a salary cut, because I value the sun. It it less depressing waking up to sun rather than grey most days. That must have some positive impact on health.

[dagw]

Is it not the case that Norway and dark places have a far higher suicide rate?

Not really. Norway has roughly the same rate is the US and quite a bit lower than France (but quite a bit higher than Spain). The whole darkness leads to suicide is largely a myth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_ra...

[michaelochurch]

Is it not the case that Norway and dark places have a far higher suicide rate?

Short answer: no. Longer answer: sort-of, but not recently.

In the mid-20th century, there was a lot of suicide in northern latitudes in the summer, which actually led some to believe that too much light (16-20+ hours per day) was the culprit. Spring and summer have always been the peak seasons for suicide, violent crime, and new mental illness. So why is there less of that in warmer climates? The culprit isn't sunlight (either winter's lack of it, or summer's abundance of it) itself, but alcoholism (which is a contributing factor to a shocking percentage of suicides). Harsh winter climates can contribute to alcoholism-- however, a lack of economic opportunity is more devastating-- which is a chronic problem once developed, and can lead to a summer suicide.

In 2014, the Nordic countries take alcoholism, mental health, and social services very seriously (much moreso than, say, the US) and don't have an unusually high suicide rate. In fact, people in Scandinavia and Canada are, on average, happier, healthier, and less suicidal than Americans.

[Htsthbjig]

In Norway you have no sun half of the year.

The other half you have more sun than in Spain.

The main problem in Norway are bone cracking because serious vitamin D deficit. They make children eat pills for that.

It is a great business for fracture specialists. :-D

[Dewie]

> Is it not the case that Norway and dark places have a far higher suicide rate?

I don't know. Probably more occurrences of SAD. But then, it might be that only certain people are affected by it.

I've grown up in Norway and yes, it isn't very fun for me to wake up at 0700 in the winter, pitch black outside, and then go to school. My area also got a lot of overcast and rain in the winter which, though UV radiation might have come through the clouds, it only compounded the gloomy weather. I wonder if I'm actually more bothered by the chilly, rainy weather rather than the darkness. If there was more snow, it would be a bit lighter.

In return, you get more sun in the summer.

I lived in Spain for 5 months. I wasn't particularly happy during that time, though there were other factors impacting that. More sun and less rain was certainly nice.