[Zenst]

your right, been the case since I started in the 80's. Still the case, best way to get payrise to to show a offer and then they will struggle matching and then say you can expect a substantial payrise over the next few years, or some other excuse.

But what I have seen in the 80's, 90's, 00 and today are people who leave for a new job, then come back a few years later and in that process get paid more than there last job of which the company would not match the offer or come close.

This is why the only real way in many companies to get a pay-rise is a job change/promotion and this and as true work is often not valued and gauged by management tier then we end up with lots of managers. Sounds familiar too many in large companies.

But then in contrast in the 80's older people got paid more and younger people got paid less and personally experienced that in many situations when I would of got much more if I was just older, no more experience, just age. Now I'm older, that situation has changed and more bias towards younger people in many situations, experience ignored. But young people will burn 80 hours learning and doing work which the older person could of probably done in half the time if not less. But we all go thru that learning curve.

Not all companies still this bad, some better, but at the same time introduce new issues and with that the price of some free food to entrap employee's into doing extra free hours that far out-way they food investment is an area most overlook in a young industry like IT. Acting, accountants and other longer established trades have much more solid practice and rewards and protection. Heck who wouldn't want a repeat-fee like actors every time your code was run.

[megablast]

> best way to get payrise to to show a offer and then they will struggle matching and then say you can expect a substantial payrise over the next few years, or some other excuse.

No, the best way is to keep abreast of what new hires are getting paid, and make sure you are staying ahead.