[elwell]

It's worth noting that I have a friend who was brought out of many years suicidal depression by his faith in God. I say that simply to add balance to our anecdotal judgments upon religion, albeit he isn't part of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

[igravious]

1) The person above never claimed above that losing their faith directly caused their suicidal depression. As such your anecdote does not balance out any judgment about religion I have.

2) I am already ideologically committed to being ill-disposed towards the concept of religion and, honestly, your single datum won't change that.

3) Are you claiming that your friend found God (they had no faith faith before) and this was directly instrumental to their suicidal depression lifting? Or was your friend always religious?

4) If God exists why should belief in that existence have an effect on suicidal ideation and major depressive episodes? What I'm saying is, how do you imagine these two things are connected?

5) Is it not possible that the two events occurred at around about the same time? That is to say, and I swear I've never used this before: correlation does not equal causation.

[gobots]

I'm the person above, to clarify some things:

I was suicidal prior to leaving the religion. I didn't leave until age 29, but I have been suicidal since age 16. Leaving the religion however did worsen my depression. This is because my friends and family shunned me, I no longer knew where to turn for "answers" (more on that below). Ultimately I was depressed that I had dedicated 29 years of my life to a lie.

I wanted to be so many things in life and I am a person who actually has the ability to achieve those things. My religion robbed me of those opportunities. First by suggesting college was a bad thing in the 1970s and thus preventing my father from attending, second by pointing out the bad in every possible career or lifestyle choice that fails to conform to the Jehovah's Witness standard.

It would be a very foolish to think the source of my depression is caused by the loss of "Jehovah" (the god of the Witnesses, thus the name). Jehovah is nothing more than a delusion. Jehovah, who I knew as the one true God, creator of everything – a being that I called "father" in my head; a creature that supposedly loved his son so much that he killed him for the sake of human lives (I can't help but wonder if this is why Witness parents can write their children off so easily) is simply an adult imaginary friend.

This imaginary friend is spoken to in in prayer. Any faithful Witness says at least four prayers a day (one before each meal, and one before bed). That adds up to 28 prayers a week. Unless you count the group prayers said at the weekly meetings (church), then you're looking at 34 prayers a week. Oh and let's not forget personal study (preparation for the meetings, three times a week) and family study (once a week). Now you're up to 38 prayers. Oh wait, I forgot about field service (preaching door to door) at least twice a week (more if you're a full time preacher). That's 40 prayers a week. My father once gave a talk at one of our meetings and said he prayed on the ride to and from work everyday, and we were also told to say silent prayers to ask for courage when preaching. I would say praying 50~ times a week is pretty common for a faithful Witness. And these are very personal prayers – like talking to a friend, but in your mind (unless it's a group prayer). Nothing is by route, save for the sign off "in Jesus name we pray, amen", but even then people get creative – "in your son's name whom we all deeply love, amen" etc.

A typical group prayer is something like this (imagine you're at a Kingdom Hall (church) on a Sunday and the study is about Christ's death:

"Jehovah our God in the heavens, we approach you this fine Sunday morning, the Sun, though hot reminds us of your glory and infinite power. Jehovah you truly are worthy of the praise and honor that your son so lovingly died for, and as we gather this morning to talk about his death we ask that you give us an appropriate portion of your Holy Spirit so that we may fully digest the spiritual banquet that you have laid before us. Jehovah please continue to watch over the faithful and discreet slave class so that they may in turn continue to provide us with the proper food at the proper time. Also we ask that you be with the Smith family, we know they are going through so much and we ask that you help them cope with their loss. In Jesus name we pray, amen"

That would be considered an appropriate prayer in terms of length, subject matter, and conclusion and the fact that it was made up on the cuff as opposed to by rote.

Individual prayers are very similar, but more personal. You're supposed to pray about any decisions you have to make, pour your heart out, and throw your burdens on Jehovah.

I did this for 29 years. I'm pretty sure the waves of depression I get about the religion are something akin nausea, but in my brain. I don't miss god, I despise the very notion that one would exist. I don't miss religion, I despise it for essentially driving me to the brink of insanity when I admitted there is no god to myself.

Imagine praying like that for 29 years, not thinking you would die, spending countless hours preaching from door to door, studying books filled with lies and misquotes, having your mind filled with an alternate history of reality made up by groups of men in ties.

Witnesses are mind raped and very few people are equipped to deal with that sort trauma. I'm pretty certain depression and suicidal tendencies are a natural reaction.

All of that said, I could see how some people would cling to religion and claim it saved them from suicide. Some people need lies to get through life.

Edit:

on "not knowing where to turn for answers" – nearly every question on religion and life in general that you have can be answered by a Witness using Watchtower literature and circular logic. What you should watch, eat, drink, wear, think; how you speak, the friends you choose, when you should date, the types of entertainment to watch, how to deal with -insert religion-, how to deal with -insert objection to core witness belief-; you name it, it can be answered. You aren't really taught to think for yourself when you're raised by a very faithful witness family.

[mreiland]

To answer 4:

Human beings perceive things through emotion, so anything that cause a perspective shift that enables them to deal with their emotions/the situation in a more positive manner helps them cope, be that getting religion, losing religion, or some other circumstance in their life.

Also, you're an asshole for using this thread to start pushing an agenda.

[igravious]

No. No I'm not. If anything your hostility is indicative why it is so beneficial that we now have these virtual forums where we can exchange ideas on these topics in a non-confrontational manner. Nothing is gained through hostility.

Let's be clear. I do have an agenda. But you also have an agenda. Your approach is only going to make my resolve firmer not weaken it. Maybe, I don't know, think through what you're trying to say a bit more before hitting 'reply'. Also, have an unbiased look at the other replies to my comment.

[mreiland]

It's because I'm ok with being blunt about my opinion. There can be no mistake about how I perceived your pushing an agenda in a thread involving someone's severe depression.

You on the other hand, are simply passive aggressive.

The hope is that the people you're responding to will read it and realize they're not alone when being attacked (yes, asking loaded questions can be an attack).

There is a time and place for everything, and while you have every right to post anything you want to, you also have the responsibility of doing it in good taste. This was neither the time, nor the place, and shame on you for doing it.

[igravious]

The thing is. At some point in this conversation I'm going to have to ask myself what I did to make this person call me an asshole, to call me passive aggressive, to claim I attacked someone, and to heap shame on me.

The conclusion I'm going to come to is that you feel threatened by something I've said. Given that we're talking about belief in God and religious commitments here I'm going to have to conclude that you believe in God and potentially identify with one of the world's religions.

And I stepped on your feelings.

Am I right?

[mreiland]

Are you implying that non-theists don't have the capacity to experience empathy towards another human being such that they feel it's inappropriate to attack attack their religion in a roundabout manner in a thread in which they're asking for help from other humans?

I just want to make sure that's how you feel, because it appears as if you've concluded I must be theist based solely on my empathy towards the OP.

[elwell]

3) The friend I am thinking of was always religious.

4) I don't claim to prove anything; I was adding to our anecdotal evidences.