[grrrando]

Three hours a day on the subway from almost anywhere in Brooklyn to almost anywhere in Manhattan is a stretch. I commute from Bay Ridge - the far end of the "R" line in Brooklyn, and not express - to Little Italy, daily. Door-to-door, the commute is about 45 minutes. My rent is under $1600 for a large 1BR in an elevator building with laundry.

Coming from Philadelphia, where I lived in a 2BR HOUSE with a yard and all the amenities for $400/mo less, there was some sticker shock. But when you get to it, there's a lot more opportunity, a lot more options, a lot more of...everything. New York is about "a lot". That's what you pay for.

People seem to be unwilling to explore neighborhoods outside of a 20-minute ride to down/midtown hotspots, which reasonably cost considerably more. If you can stomach an extra 10-20m on the subway you can find very livable rents in good neighborhoods.

[forgotAgain]

I use to live in Bay Ridge as well, I was at the end of the R (then RR) line at 95th St. The subway is local from there and it takes a good 45 minutes to reach Wall Street and an hour to reach midtown. On top of that you need to add in the time to and from the station at both ends.

Its been a while since I lived there but living in Bay Ridge is not what people think of when they think of living in NYC. There are no museums or shows, great libraries or parks with concerts. (Although there is Shore Road which is a great place to jog.) Going into Manhattan on weekends is a drag when you ride the subway all week. Honestly, comparing living in Bay Ridge to living in someplace like Pittsburgh, I don't see where it's worth the time that the added expenses costs.

[WoodenChair]

I'm not familiar with Bay Ridge - but you can live in Queens, New Jersey, better parts of the Bronx, even Staten Island and Long Island and have shorter commutes than that for similar rents in safe neighborhoods. Yes, it's not the glamorous Manhattan life that people think of coming home to - but public transportation in New York is the best in the country and you're free to stay out as late as you want...

[omegaworks]

>public transportation in New York is the best in the country and you're free to stay out as late as you want...

Does anyone else think this is sad? When you visit a place like Tokyo, it makes NYC look like a decrepit backwater.

[WoodenChair]

I haven't been to Tokyo. But I have been to most of the largest cities of North America and Europe. The NYC subway system is extremely inexpensive ($2.50 for as long a ride as you need - as many transfers as you want), has incredibly wide coverage, and is quite reliable. It is one of the largest subway systems in the world. It is old and somewhat dirty if that's what you're referring to? I don't think it's sad.

In addition there are commuter trains that cover most of Long Island, Westchester county, Southwest Connecticut, and North New Jersey that connect to stations serviced by the subway and many run hourly or half hourly. NY buses aren't the best - but no system is perfect.

[HeyLaughingBoy]

$2.50? Now I know I'm old. Last time I rode the NYC bus/subway regularly, the price hike to 75 cents was controversial news.

Still I agree that it's a good deal considering how far you can travel.

[paxtonab]

Last time I was in Tokyo the subway stopped running very early (either midnight or 1 AM) compared to NYC where it never stops.

That has obvious benefits such as helping maintain cleanliness, but I still wouldn't eat a meal without washing my hands after riding on the Tokyo subway.

[mkehrt]

Have you been to Tokyo? The subway consists of several disjoint systems that don't connect in reasonable ways, each with its own incomprehensibly different payment system, and it stops running at around midnight. New York beats it by a mile.

[omegaworks]

Obviously you haven't been in a while. Nowadays they have the SUICA card tap and go that negotiates payments for you.

It does stop running, but Tokyo doesn't. That's why capsule hotels and suitcase lockers.

[gdilla]

You live in Bay Ridge so you can afford to live in greater NYC and access NYC opportunities. Not to live in Bay Ridge for the Bay Ridge lifestyle (necessarily.. some people live there for the schools).

[grrrando]

This is the most real reason to live in Bay Ridge. It's a suburb, realistically, but connected to a subway and within shooting distance of a lot of useful/interesting stuff.

I don't find myself often venturing to uptown Manhattan, Williamsburg, or anywhere in Queens. My fiancee and I live in Bay Ridge, some family members live in the West Village, and most of our friends live Southern/"Middle" Brooklyn – Park Slope, Bed Stuy, etc.

THAT SAID: The more wholesome amenities available in Bay Ridge blow away most everything else available in Brooklyn (notable exceptions are only Park Slope, BoCoCa, Williamsburg proper). Considering the price, a bargain of a neighborhood. Dining/Drinking-wise, the neighborhood itself is going through a small revolution. Good stuff happening. Super livable area.

[autokad]

I visit my friend in bay ridge all the time. I take the N to 59th street from 30th in manhatan, and its at least 45 minutes. The R is considerably longer. closer to an hour when you consider walking to the station and waiting for the N. somehow I always see R when I need an N. This situation would be more typical than yours, requiring at least an hour full commute to your destination.

I lived Philadelphia for 9 years (from outside Pittsburgh), I'm curious to what 'a lot more opportunity, a lot more options' mean? I find almost anything NYC can offer that other cities dont are things that I myself do once in a blue moon.

sure, I can't see a 100$+ broadway play at the cost of 24k$ a year in increased housing, but instead I can take the train out for the 1 time a year I do and spend the rest going to i dono, egypt?

[gdilla]

I think it's for the career opportunities - there's a huge density of jobs in NYC and a diverse collection of industries. You can job hop and ratchet up your salary if you network and manage yourself well. You can do all this without moving because of the density and transit options. It's really quite rare to be able to do that.

[autokad]

that is definitely true

[Maven911]

What do you get in NYC that you wouldnt't get elsewhere (or that's hard to get elsewhere) ? Legitimate question here, since I am thinking of moving there but I have feelings the place is just overhyped as a tourist spot.

[freshyill]

I lived in New York from '05-'08. It was fun. I have lots of friends there and I could go out to awesome bars and concerts and comedy shows, and it was generally a great time.

Eventually though, I wanted better opportunities. Nobody wanted to pay in New York. If I looked for web design gigs on Craigslist and elsewhere, everybody seemed to think $10/hour was a fair rate. It was insulting. So I got the hell out.

I moved to DC in 2008 and haven't really looked back. In 2008, it was considerably cheaper, and salaries were generally higher. After struggling to find a decent job when I was first planning to move to New York, I was shocked to find that there were many companies and organizations in DC that were jumping to hire me.

Now I live just outside the city. I actually have kids and own a house. Those things would have never been an option in New York, unless I was willing to raise my kids in a shithole apartment. Granted, DC's cost of living is astronomical, but it's still way more accessible than New York.

Everything that I like about New York is still there when I visit once a year or so. And that's about all the partying I have the stomach for these days anyway. Even if I lived there, the best parts of New York would only benefit me on rare occasions, but the drawbacks would be daily.

All that said, if you're in your mid-20s and looking for a few years of having fun and living in a tenement, go for it. I wouldn't advise against it. But if you're looking to ever settle down in New York, it's not a good idea.

I don't know if any city comes close to New York in terms of the entertainment and culture options available there. Even New York's subway system is unparalleled. DC's Metro is beautiful but functionally, it's only a tiny fraction of the New York subway.

Even in DC, I, I keep thinking of how low the cost of living is in Baltimore or Harrisburg, and whether maybe I should try to convince my employer to let me become part- or full-time remote, and take my DC salary to someplace with a lower cost of living.

[santaclaus]

A huge quantity of restaurants and bars within walking distance. A big dating pool for singles. No need for a car for the automobile averse. Pretty much every band/show/whatever will make a few stops in NYC.

[warfangle]

The good:

* Mass transit good enough that you don't need an internal combustion engine

* One of the best pools of internet companies on the east coast

* Extraordinarily diverse: I have friends from all walks of life, from blue collar (UPS delivery) to white collar (finance) to video production, photography, painters, sculptors and trying-to-make-it-actors-but-working-in-service.

* Any kind of cuisine, delivered at any time.

* Live comedy or music any night you want it

* Superb dine-in experiences

* Some of the best museums in the nation

The bad:

* Extraordinarily expensive. But if you live in an outer borough it almost balances out with living in a suburb somewhere: $1500 in rent, $120/mo in transit costs. Compare to Raleigh, NC: $795 for similar apartment in-city-limits, ($100/mo auto insurance, $3.50/gallon @ 27mpg @ 20 mi/day = $78/mo in gas, $300/mo in payments on a $15k car) $478/mo in transit costs. Chose Raleigh because I'm familiar with it, and there are actually some tech companies there (but you'll probably have to commute to RTP unless you're at Red Hat or Citrix or Wells Fargo). So a ~$350/mo (I'd extend this to a generalized 27% - this includes eating out, though not necessarily groceries) premium for living in Brooklyn compared to Raleigh.

* Summers are brutal, and you usually have to rely on in-window units; central HVAC is unheard of except in brand new luxury residential buildings

* Accidentally getting on that one empty car on the subway that just pulled in during rush hour

* Constant temptation to get completely shitfaced every night because there are 5 bars within stumbling distance of home

* It drains your energy until you get used to it.

* It won't be like Sex in the City or Friends (more like Seinfeld with a shittier apartment), and people who expect it to be leave quickly -- thank goodness.

* City income tax on top of state and federal.

* Really, really crappy landlords.

* Really, really crappy sidewalks [translation: too many people don't pick up their dog's (you hope it's a dog's) poo.]