[sscalia]

I find it hard to argue with any of the points he makes. I'm sure someone here will, but I found myself doing the mental "gulp of air and raising a finger" then getting silenced again.

I really wish Microsoft had pulled off Windows Phone; it arguably had a much better user experience than Android did (and still does) -- and interesting Nokia hardware.

I simply don't believe Google has the best interests of anyone at heart except themselves and advertisers.

The next 10 years are going to be very interesting indeed.

[markdown]

> I simply don't believe Google has the best interests of anyone at heart except themselves and advertisers.

You think Apple has your interests at heart? Or Microsoft?

Like Google, they have your cash at heart. Not a thing more.

[curun1r]

No, it's very much different than Google. Google doesn't have your cash at heart. They've largely been uninterested in your cash. The cash they do care about is that of the advertisers that use their platform. Apple is unapologetically interested in your money and less interested in impinging on people's privacy.

We can argue over which model is preferable to users, with may preferring to pay and others preferring the sponsored option, but you can't really say that Apple and Google are equivalent.

People like to frame the Apple vs Google battle as one of openness vs closed-ness, of an ecosystem with many participants vs a walled garden with just Apple. But I see it far more as a battle over how we choose to pay for technology...directly or indirectly.

[MAGZine]

I like to think Google gives you a choice of how you're being advertised to, product depending. Lots of times they give you the option to limit the data you send to marketing firms, or outright limit the data they collect (i.e. location history, search history, etc)

[coldtea]

>Like Google, they have your cash at heart. Not a thing more.

For one, they could get the same or even more cash with far more crappier products (marketed more, altered to satisfy pundits, relax design and build requirements to cash-in on the Apple brand, etc). Nobody would have taken offense if they built a heavier, bulkier, plastic MacBook Air, with a DVD drive even and VGA ports and visible seams -- but they wanted to do things their was.

Second, wanting my cash is good. Because I get to be the judge when to give my cash, and I give it when I see things I want and like ("shut up and take my money"). Google, on the other hand, wants the advertisers' cash, which means they could not care less about me in lots of areas (except the area of seeing their ads).

So Apple might not have "my interests" at heart, but they are allowed by their management to take more pride in what they build than other companies, where the bottom line dictates more decisions.

[webwielder]

Not everyone is as cynical as you. I believe the people at Apple genuinely want to make great hardware and software that enhances people's lives. Their world-class accessibility support is proof enough of that.

[euank]

>the people at Apple genuinely want ... to enhance people's lives

I believe that too. However, I think that's generally true. You could replace Apple by Google or Microsoft there.

People on a whole are generally good (or at least I believe so).

If what you meant to say was "Apple cares about people and wouldn't let profit motives let them make questionable decisions, like including ads or adding DRM to software " then carry on.

If you indeed said what you meant to in your second sentence, then I think it was essentially meaningless since it's so generally true.

[oneeyedpigeon]

Come on, you don't get to be the highest valued company in the world by being altruistic. Apple produce great products (I happen to be using one now) but they charge prices that many cannot afford in order to make more money for themselves. That's not being cynical, just realistic.

[poolpool]

No they just ignore the lower end of the market that makes 0 money and leaves everyone else fighting over the scraps.

There is a reason Dell bought Quest for billions of dollars. It is not because they see a bright future for the consumer pc market.

[caycep]

That being said, I think they've learned that getting your cash depends on you being satisfied, and their interests tend to align/dovetail with yours better than MS or Google. With MS/Google, you don't pay them, the advertisers or corporate buyers do and they don't care as much.

[seiji]

To march out some old tropes: Apple makes money by delighting users so they will continue to buy products. Google makes money by tracking users, forcefully if necessary, and abusing their advertisers. Microsoft makes money out of legacy ties these days—they don't deserve to continue existing.

[oneeyedpigeon]

That comment is just ridiculously biased - you might have a good point, but it's hidden behind the opinion. For example, one could just as legitimately counter with "Apple makes money by developing a desirable brand and overcharging on hardware" but that wouldn't fit your spin, would it?

[mstolpm]

The Apple lock-in only works as long as the users are happy with their (maybe limited) choice. Apple needs their customers to upgrade to new devices every few years.

[tomp]

How is it overcharging? It's true, their devices are more expensive than the rest of the market, but nothing on the market comes close to Apple's quality and usability. Simply said, they have no competition, so they can set their own price - and while the customers are paying it, it's not overcharging.

[oneeyedpigeon]

RAM?

[caycep]

Everytime I configure a dell to something equivalent to the analogous Apple product, it comes out about even or about 10% more...and in a hideous plastic casing.

[vacri]

Some rebuttal tropes:

Apple makes money by making toys for the wealthy. You have to be middle-class or higher in an advanced economy to use their system, in real terms. In comparison, Google lets anyone use basically all of their stuff for free. As long as you can get online in some form, Google welcomes you, no matter how poor you are or where in the world you might be or what hardware you use. Google also doesn't force you to relinquish control of your environment, whereas Apple has a big ruler it smacks your knuckles with if you don't do things The Apple Way.

Microsoft doesn't deserve to continue existing? Perhaps you should talk to large businesses, then. What are they going to use, because it's only Microsoft that's talking to them. Unix has a love affair with the backend in business, but it's really only Microsoft that's giving them what they want in the full stack. Compare to Apple, who points at the laptops and says "Hey everyone, look how cool we are", at which point business says "oo, cool. So what enterprise tools do you have?"... at which point Apple runs off into traffic, giggling like a mad four-year-old.

[TheOtherHobbes]

>You have to be middle-class or higher in an advanced economy to use their system, in real terms.

True for Apple PCs (except for the Mac Mini, but most people don't buy those.) Especially true for MacBooks.

Not true at all for iPhones which are available on very affordable plans in all developed countries, and are ubiquitous, even for users who are nowhere near middle class.

Microsoft is in transition. The idiocy that was Windows 8 all-but killed the Wintel desktop PC market. The server side is healthy, but desktop Windows is looking very shaky indeed.

For better or worse, Jobs deliberately moved Apple out of Enterprise. We can argue about why, and we can argue whether or not it was a good decision. But Apple decided to focus on consumer computing - which strengthened the consumer brand and freed up development resources, if nothing else.

MS is still trying to slide into all kinds of niches. It's succeeding in a few, but failing and flailing in many.

Nadella will likely be more focused than spaghetti-at-the-wall Ballmer, so we'll have to see how that works out.

Azure isn't solid enough as a cloud service yet - too many outages. Server is looking good. Office is kind of old and boring now, but still does what it does.

So what can MS offer modern startups that they can't get better and/or cheaper elsewhere?

[seabrookmx]

You clearly have no idea how many enterprise web applications and data centers run on .NET. I will agree Microsoft's legacy is allowing them to limp on in the consumer space, but many companies, new and old, are moving to a MS stack for enterprise due to the great developer experience and seamless integration (not unlike Apple on the consumer side).

How much of the internet is served up by OS X?

[thrownaway2424]

Yeah I remember the time Google walked up to me on the street and shoved my face into a billboard. Those assholes.

[happyscrappy]

It is a question of whose interests align with yours. Do your interests align with advertisers? Mine sure as hell don't.

[thrownaway2424]

Do you live in a world where it is impossible for two parties to both benefit from the same thing?

[happyscrappy]

Life is probably easier and cheaper if you embrace advertisers but I can't stand them.

[sscalia]

Yes, my cash - the end user.

Not other companies looking to get my "attention"

[patrickaljord]

The fact that apple apps such as itunes do not work on android only serves apple and their lockin strategy, not you or your cash.

[gress]

No, it just means that Android is not a good environment for companies that want to charge money for what they do. Apple is far from the only company that experiences this.