[codeonfire]

Really you don't know why? Product management is the embodiment of the idea that man should not be allowed to control what he or she makes. It's the idea that the maker's role should be reduced to mere mechanical typists because we have all these other people that so badly want to be in control and make all the decisions, but dammit they just can't be bothered and are too important to do all the difficult parts like actually making the thing. Not surprisingly, everyone except engineers likes this idea.

[mattyfo]

I think your product managers are doing it all wrong. They should be showing up with "this is the problem we've identified" and asking how the makers can solve it. Product management looses out big when they show up with "this is the solution we demand".

[codeonfire]

Yes, that would be great. Unfortunately there is no incentive at all for product managers to have that sort of positive and forward thinking attitude or working relationship with engineering. Instead, 99.9% of product managers have every political incentive to take the approach of 'I have the word manager in my job title therefore I am everyone's boss and they must work to meet my demands' Inexperienced engineers won't challenge this and every other person on the team loves the idea that engineers are their underlings, so that becomes the culture and work environment.