[edias]

Windows 8 really isn't that bad.

I avoided it like the plague when it was first released mainly due to the lack of start menu but between the 8.1 update and classic shell maturing a bit, I basically see it as a faster Windows 7 (especially start up on an SSD). I have some minor complaints but so long as I never have to enter the metro UI I've been pretty happy with it overall.

[justin66]

I see what you're saying but there's no "never show me anything Metro, ever" checkbox, and for me that's a problem. I've got a Lenovo touchpad and the user experience over the months has involved learning not to accidentally make all the myriad gestures that cause Windows 8 to do something stupid.

I keep discovering new ones, I think in part due to the 8.1 update. Perhaps that's not why, it's hard to say. This is all a purely negative process for me: trying to keep the PC from doing something I don't want it to do. Apparently driver writers and Microsoft don't want to give you an official "make this trackpad not act stupid" option, either, last I checked.

[lelandriordan]

Thats Lenovo's fault not Microsoft's, drivers haven't been a problem in ages. I have both a Macbook Retina and desktop gaming PC. I hand built the PC and all of the drivers automatically downloaded and installed. The only thing I ever did after that was update AMD Catalyst for my 280x's, but that was my choice; it worked fine before I updated. You probably updated to 8.1 before Lenovo updated its drivers or bought an old touchpad that was actually meant for Windows 7 and is no longer supported by them. Touchpad's are also a niche product use case, 99% of users use mice, laptop track-pads or touchscreens. Thus touchpads will never be a priority for driver development teams.

As for the learning curve, have you ever seen a lifetime Windows user try someone else's Mac? Hot Corners drive them absolutely crazy, or they will accidentally pinch to zoom or they will scroll by mistake and not realize whats happening. There is always a learning curve, even in the most user friendly operating systems like iOS. And what actual computer do you have? The problem is people use a $400 Dell and then compare it to a $2000 Retina or $1200 Air. The Surface Pro 3 is a premium Apple like device, and what do you know, early reviews from places like The Verge say its the best possible Windows 8 experience. My Mac and my PC cost about the same, and I love each of them for different reasons. Each OS has its own pros and cons.

As for metro, what are you doing that causes Metro to show up? On my desktop, I have almost never seen it since 8.1 came out. Once you enable boot to desktop and pin your most widely used programs to the taskbar, the only time it ever shows up is when you are looking for a rarely used program. Even then it is actually pretty good when you think of it as nothing more than an advanced start menu replacement. And in the next update MS is making an option to do just that: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2138443/rejoice-the-start-men.... The real problem is Windows doesn't automatically detect what hardware is connected and change the settings to ones like these automatically.

[sdrothrock]

I can't speak for Lenovo, but here's my experience with an Asus laptop.

When I use my right index finger to move the cursor around, if my palm nudges the palm rest, it usually activates some kind of gesture that switches to Metro.

If I use my right index finger to move the cursor around and my left index finger or thumb to click, then that activates some gesture that switches to metro.

If I'm typing and my palms touch the mousepad, that activates some gesture that switches to metro.

If you've never seen it once on your desktop, I would guess that it's because you don't have a touchpad that lets Windows interpret random touches as a "go to metro now!" command.

[pooper]

I won't say it works for everyone but on my Lenovo y510p, I can change the settings for the ELAN pointing device to disable my trackpad when there is an external mouse attached. If I have to use the computer for more than a few minutes, I make sure I plug in my mouse. (It isn't made to be an ultraportable / on top of a lap laptop notebook computer as the air intake is at the bottom.)

The surface would, of course, need to work well without a mouse. Perhaps the pen could be used as a pointing device in desktop mode as well?

[justin66]

I found the jump to macbook from a Windows laptop to be quite easy and friendly. That sorry of thing never bothers me.

>As for metro, what are you doing that causes Metro to show up?

There are various gestures (in my case, quite literally always made by mistake) a person can make on the trackpad that cause random metro behavior. Swiping from the side or top and so on, very easy to do with a large trackpad by mistake.

Your comments about lenovo are off base in this instance. The problem with the trackpad is that it's working as Microsoft intended.

[teamonkey]

Type "swiping" on the start screen. The first option listed is "Choose to allow swiping from touchpad edges"

[justin66]

> Type "swiping" on the start screen. The first option listed is "Choose to allow swiping from touchpad edges"

Doesn't bring anything up at all on my Lenovo with 8.1. The option doesn't seem to be in PC settings either. Tried searching on "touchpad" as well. Let's see...

Your mentioning that this now exists did inspire me to dig a little more... the setting I needed was buried in the Lenovo-specific "thinkpad" tab under mouse properties: "enable gestures" on the OLD control panel.

Searching on "swiping" instead in the manner you described wouldn't actually help anyone. This setting lives in old-control-panel land and the metro screen's search only searches new-control-panel land, apparently. It's hard to know who to blame for such a thing: lenovo for using the old-school panel for its custom trackpad settings and messing with the default behavior, or MSFT for splitting settings across two completely different paradigms.

Thanks!

edit: just to be clear, I double checked Settings -> Change PC Settings -> PC and Devices -> Mouse and Touchpad settings and there is absolutely not a "Choose to allow swiping from touchpad edges" option there.

[teamonkey]

Those settings exist as I described on my Surface Pro 2 and my Dell Inspiron. The former uses a factory install of 8.1, the latter using a raw install from disc. I would say that the issue lies with your Lenovo's setup.

However the search should definitely include old style control panel options as well as the new. Again, it does for both my Surface and my Dell (it's a lot slower on the Dell since it doesn't have a SSD, but instantaneous on the Surface).

[bztzt]

The search charm (which typing on Start is a shortcut to) does search settings from throughout the system, including Control Panel in the desktop, but I'm not sure if third-party extensions are included in the search.

[nitrogen]

A perfect example of why search is less useful than hierarchical organization for a new user: I would've searched for "gesture" or "start page".

[teamonkey]

It's also the first result for "gesture".

But you can also find it the long way:

Settings -> Change PC Settings -> PC and Devices -> Mouse and Touchpad settings

Which is a deep but logical hierarchy, IMO.

[edias]

How much time have you tried customizing it to your liking? I couldn't stand Windows 8 before some serious tweaking, which don't get me wrong is a massive design flaw, but if you don't mind using some 3rd party software you can basically achieve the "never show me anything metro, ever" checkbox.

Definitely check out classic shell[1] if you haven't yet, I wouldn't be using Win8 if it didn't exist. Also you'll find plenty of guides to turning off charm bars/ gestures/hot corners and whatever other UI trickery Windows 8 brought us.

[1]http://www.classicshell.net/

[justin66]

The funny thing is, I actually don't have as huge a problem with the shell or lack of classic menus as some people do. I can just pile shortcuts onto the desktop like all my install programs want to do anyway.

It really is the touchpad for me that's the huge annoyance, and dealing with the UI to make wifi work properly, which I guess is a Metro gripe. The last time I checked, the touchpad thing required registry tweaking and positive results were not at all guaranteed. Whoever decided that the touchpad, of all things, should sorta-kinda try to incorporate the same gestures as the touchscreen (maybe? I have a touchscreen but barely use it) was probably guilty of huffing gasoline.

[shanselman]

I went into the Synaptics control panel and turned off touchpad gestures completely. Everything got better.