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by k-mcgrady 4409 days ago
>> "As I remounted my bike and rode away, it occurred to me that she didn't at any point thank me..." >> "There's not much to be gained from interacting with strangers..."

Good on you for stopping to help but why do you feel like you should have to gain something by helping someone else? The woman you helped was still probably quite shocked and dealing with police to thank you and it's highly likely that in such a situation information like where you worked completely went over her head.

I think this is one of the reasons people have stopped helping others - they expect something in return. If I helped someone the only thing I'd expect in return would be that if the person I helped is ever in a situation where they can provide help to someone else, they'll remember the time they were helped by a stranger and take action.

Side point

>> "There's not much to be gained from interacting with strangers, even less when there's a risk of being dragged into someone else's potentially violent confrontation."

The second part of this statement interests me. Is fear of something (that is highly unlikely to occur) a reason people don't get involved? It made me think of Michael Moore's conclusion in Bowling for Columbine that America's love of guns is based on fear that they will be attacked, mugged, home invaded etc. This may also be a reason people don't get involved in situation they can't control even though it's highly unlikely they are in any danger.

4 comments

> If I helped someone the only thing I'd expect in return would be that if the person I helped is ever in a situation where they can provide help to someone else, they'll remember the time they were helped by a stranger and take action.

You say that as if it's a minor thing ("the only thing I'd expect") but you might be expecting someone to risk their life, get accused of rape by an unstable person, put themselves in danger of injury or lawsuit. It's not a trivial matter. I personally wasn't expecting anything from this person I helped, I was just pointing out that she ended up being no different from the other drivers around her - just less fortunate.

As Anderkent says, on a basic level, we're all expecting "something in return". We help other people, maybe they'll help us one day. But this instinct is tuned to small communities (in which we evolved) where "paying it forward" like this is very likely to occur in a short space of time. You help me carry my kill home, you can have some of the meat. You help me get my harvest in, I'll help you raise that barn. But in large communities (several million strong, in some cases) these opportunities will be limited so we are more reluctant to get involved. We might not be consciously weighing profit and loss, but on a subconscious or instinctive level, we are.

  You say that as if it's a minor thing ("the only thing 
  I'd expect") but you might be expecting someone to risk
  their life, get accused of rape by an unstable person,
  put themselves in danger of injury or lawsuit. It's 
  not a trivial matter.
Strongly seconded.

This happens more often than one would think.

I do not want to alarm anyone but it is not entirely out of the bounds of reason to expect law enforcement to NOT acknowledge your good Samaritanism or worse, punish you for it.

"Good Samaritan Backfire or How I Ended Up in Solitary After Calling 911 for Help"

Discussed previously here on HN :

How I Ended Up In Solitary After Calling 911 For Help

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7233730

Direct link to blog :

https://medium.com/human-parts/9f53ef6a1c10

That guy did not leave after the police arrived and told him to leave (according to his own account, at the URL you give).
But does that even justify the police brutality though? He didn't want to leave without his friend (who was supporting the girl while she was getting up when the police pulled him off).

No, the police is definitely in the wrong here.

That sounds not very far removed from: "She burned the dinner after I told her I was hungry.
>You help me carry my kill home, you can have some of the meat. You help me get my harvest in, I'll help you raise that barn.

What you describe is reciprocity, trading favors or "paying it back". "Paying it forward" is something different and rarer.

There quite definitely is something to be gained by helping strangers.

1) Your humanity and self-respect. It feels damnably good to know you've done something to help someone who needed it.

2) Serendipity. Maybe, just maybe, that person that you reach out to will somehow bless your life. Maybe they'll bite you. It's all experience, and a yarn to tell at the least.

I don't think that it's that people expect something in return, it's that society has increasingly pushed in the direction of passive consumption, of observation, of spectacle, and the actions of others on a flickering screen providing the ersatz satisfaction of actual action.

I witness this variety of thing all too frequently - someone's in trouble, and a crowd stands, and watches, much as they would the same events on television.

I can at least live in good conscience that I always step in to help, consequences be damned - and yes, I've had my share of negative consequences - lawsuit from a girl who was being beaten senseless by her "man", for intervening and causing her to scrape her knee (never mind the blood gushing from her face by the time I showed up) - lawsuit from a guy who had an epileptic fit, and I phoned for an ambulance, resulting in him being arrested on an outstanding warrant - and arrest and a broken nose for breaking up a bar-fight. Plenty else too, but those were the major ones.

Such is life, but I couldn't live with myself if I didn't.

As somebody who's been in a situation similar to this (fortunately they never got as far as pulling the knife because I stopped traffic), I still find it hard to blame people who don't help - you need to know where to draw the line in help, and it's a very blurry line. Your personal experiences are sadly biased; more than one helpful person has ended up dead because they were out of their depth [1][2][3]. As you say, such is life.

[1] http://blog.er24.co.za/2010/11/young-man-killed-in-good-sama...

[2] http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/good-samaritan-brutal...

[3] http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/sowetan/archive/2007/10/25/warn...

upvoted for being a proper human being
>I think this is one of the reasons people have stopped helping others - they expect something in return.

People always expected something in return, the thing that changes is that you no longer get it. In a small community, you're likely to meet the person you helped again, and thus leaving them stranded will definitely bite you. Not so in the current huge cities.

You say 'if I helped someone the only thing I'd expect in return would be that if the person I helped is ever in a situation where they can provide help to someone else, they'll remember the time they were helped by a stranger and take action', but is this sufficient motivation for you to actually go out and help people?

>> "is this sufficient motivation for you to actually go out and help people?"

Yes. But more than that it's the fact that I find it morally very wrong to ignore someone who needs your help. I can think of several situations where I've went out of my way to help someone. I don't want to sound like a great human being going round helping the needy (I'm not) but if I can help, I do.

>> "The woman you helped was still probably quite shocked and dealing with police to thank you and it's highly likely that in such a situation information like where you worked completely went over her head."

Having never truly experienced trauma (closest I came was a low-speed car collision on college campus) I find it fascinating how the victim suspends empathy during trauma. For me, empathy is nearly constant, so it is difficult for me to grasp a state where it wouldn't be so, as ironic as that is for someone with empathy!

As for why people don't help strangers more often than not... I believe this behavior is supported by our modern society. We've institutionalized helping people. Through taxes, we provide emergency response teams like Fire and Police departments. We provide medical, food, and housing assistance to many in need - at least the ones willing to ask for it. And yes - some assistance is volunteer, such as soup kitchens and volunteer fire departments, but I do believe the trend to be real... Taxpayers pay others to help people for them. Helpers in this society get monetary compensation.