[0grr]

1. The NSA have been implicated in economic hacking/spying/espionage throughout the Snowden leaks.

2. The only - ONLY - country to have engaged in cyber WARFARE, is the United States; by unleashing stuxnet/flame on another sovereign state.

This is beyond hypocritical of the Americans. Not only does the US violate their own and international laws but to have the gall to stand in front of the world and sanctimoniously blow their own trumpet, it's disgusting.

[wil421]

>1. The NSA have been implicated in economic hacking/spying/espionage throughout the Snowden leaks.

Do you have a source? Curious because I have only seen things related to eavesdropping or bulk data collection. I am wondering if I missed something major.

[ryoshu]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-braz...

[wil421]

I see no proof on that page. I just see the word of a reporter, on most of his other reports there were links to slides or documents.

I hope this part is true:

>"What we do not do, as we have said many times, is use our foreign intelligence capabilities to steal the trade secrets of foreign companies on behalf of – or give intelligence we collect to – US companies to enhance their international competitiveness or increase their bottom line."

Sounds like they are capturing data like this but not giving it you. What would they need it for? I dont see an honest reason or response.

[mike_hearn]

Whatever the NSA say, the opposite is true. Whatever Snowden has provided, has been found true.

Come on. Wake up. They crossed every single line so far anyone can imagine. Of course they're doing industrial espionage.

[krapp]

Without actually arguing truth or falsehood here, you realize you're basically saying any accusation made against the NSA must be true, because they're so evil, and the evidence of their evil is the accusations made against them?

Sure, maybe they are involved in industrial espionage, that would actually seem less insane than some of the other things they've been accused of, for which evidence actually exists, but arguing that it must be true because it has to be true is just using cynicism as an excuse for intellectual laziness.

[wil421]

I dont see anything in the article someone else brought up linking to a Snowden doc. I want to see the Snowden doc that talks about Petrobras specifically.

Glenn Greenwald didnt even write that article, thats another reason I am having problems with the credibility. It sounds like a Fox News type channel in Brazil is making accusations but I want evidence not hearsay.

Link:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-braz...

[mike_hearn]

The slides are in the video broadcast by Fantastico:

http://g1.globo.com/fantastico/noticia/2013/09/nsa-documents...

[mcintyre1994]

Regarding number 2, I believe the snowden leaks implicated the US and Israel for Stuxnet? The wikipedia source for that claim is http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/08/snowden_us_israel_st... which refers to this email interview: http://cryptome.org/2013/07/snowden-spiegel-13-0707-en.htm

>Interviewer: Did the NSA help to create Stuxnet? (Stuxnet is the computer worm that was deployed against the Iranian nuclear program.)

Snowden: NSA and Israel co-wrote it.