[nymph]

It's like so obvious, if you've spent any time at all working for one of these places. Or heck, even interviewing with them.

Here's what it all boils down to: aside the quants, the genuinely alpha traders, and few other wonky actuarial types, most of the grunts (you know: the "analysts"... and the vast majority of the IT types) don't seem to be there, or to have any other propelling motive in life, other than: (1) the above-average salary, and (2) once you're in, you're pretty much guaranteed to do alright -- as long as you're willing to fit in, never even think of rocking the boat, and be ready and willing to continually supplicate your superiors at all times.

Hence the ridiculously subdued style of dress (the dainty dress shoes, the blue and bland off-white shirts), and the curiously submissive demeanor of about 80% of the people you'll meet working there.

Oh, and that drug test, that everyone snickers about below their breath? Including your hiring manager? As everybody knows, it certainly isn't there out of any concern that you'd be abusing intoxicants (after all, you're more than welcome to get shitfaced on alcohol every night of the week -- which most nights you'll find yourself more or less needing to, to drown out the pain, and there sheer inanity of what you're asked to do).

It's there as a gesture of supplication and obedience -- nothing more. Getting you to drop your trousers, whip our your gear, and provide a "specimen" upon demand -- just because your superiors told you to! -- isn't an unfortunate side aspect of drug screening; it's the true purpose of the ritual -- the very end goal, in itself.

[nymph]

BTW: the point about drug testing applies to the handful of cool, geeky, "Agile" companies that adhere to this ridiculous practice, too.

In fact, a certain company by the name of Pivotal Labs comes to mind.

So -- anyone from Pivotal reading this? You're more than welcome to share your true thoughts about your employer's urine fetish, here and now -- safely and anonymously! On the off chance that upper management might actually care what you think about the topic, and perchance, take you seriously.

But heavens, don't do this while your frontline manager is standing nearby! You might get... caught!

[jnbiche]

Well, scratch Pivotal Labs off my list of potential employers. Interesting to hear this is common practice among "Agile" companies.

Can anyone confirm this trend?

[muyyatin]

Taking test-driven development too literally?

[chimeracoder]

This is the first that I've heard of Pivotal Labs requiring drug testing.

That makes me really sad - I thought the tech industry was free of this incredibly invasive, offensive, and counterproductive[0] practice.

Do you know any other tech companies that have these policies (particularly startups)? I wonder if this is an outlier or just a commonplace practice I've been unaware of.

[0] Because not all drugs remain detectable for the same amount of time, drug tests simply encourage use of drugs that are tougher to detect (if you use cocaine, amphetamines, DMT, or heroin on a Friday, it will all be gone from your system by Monday). Marijuana sits at the far other end of the spectrum - depending on the means of testing, it can be detectable weeks after use.

[yannyu]

My understanding is that it is not uncommon for VCs to push their companies to start drug testing. Can't vouch for exactly why that is, but it seems to be something that happens.

[walshemj]

Why do these VC's have shares in drug testing company's I can think of only a handful of job (outside of DV/TS clearance) that should be allowed to test there employees train drivers, airline pilots and so on.

Your MD doesn't have to have drug tests and they have access to the whole damm candy store.

[antiterra]

I was a grunt developer at 'one of these places,' and my experience was in complete contrast to your description. I was never in any way required to 'supplicate' my superiors. My input was evaluated on content and how well I argued, not on my lack of seniority.

My colleagues were lively, extremely competent and collaborative. They were far from bland office drones who only got excited at March Madness brackets or whatever the stereotype is.

A lot of them definitely read HN, and that brings me to the most memorable frustration, which was the inability to respond to comments about what it was like to work at the company.

[tdees40]

I work in finance, and I have an aesthetic love of finance. I just find it interesting. But most people who work in it have no interest whatsoever. They just want money. This means that it tends to be a joyless environment full of assholes, who think of the world in winner/loser terms.

[noname123]

What do you find so aesthetically pleasing about it?

Is it the mathematics/model building. Portfolio allocation mean-covariance? Different hedging schemes? Black-Scholes model? Different numerical methods?

Is it the system design? Use of FP to model different contracts or concurrency and distributed trading systems?

Or is it the statistics and back-testing?

Personally, I like the aesthetics a bit but mostly I love the thrill of gambling and watching the market tick and the aesthetics of CNBC money-honey's.

[bsaul]

I pity you. Between those assholes, and the image the media gives of your field because of them, you must realy feel lonely.