[adamkochanowicz]

I'm concerned that, however good Dart may be, the fact that zero browsers intend on supporting it natively (and I understand they non-natively support it via js compilation), the popularity is likely to escalate.

Wasn't the idea of Dart to replace JavaScript as the "lingua franca"? And we still have to run Chromium to support it natively?

[rdtsc]

There is nothing preventing Google from release Dartium (Chrome with DartVM). In the meantime it compiles to js and is not the first thing to do so.

In fact I think Google should release Google Chrome with Dart VM and then accelerate a few of their apps (oh look much better Google maps!), before you know it, Opera will get it as well.

[pjmlp]

It is marked as "in development" on the Chrome dashboard.

http://www.chromestatus.com/features

[sethladd]

Luckily, Dart compiles to JavaScript, so we don't need to wait for browser adoption of the VM. The questions that I see as important are: "Do my Dart apps, when compiled to JavaScript, work across the modern web?" and "Am I more productive building web apps with Dart?".

[arrty88]

So does Google Web Toolkit which is what AWS's admin console uses. Why would I use Dart over Google backed GWT?

I'm also torn between using a pure javascript framework like Google Angular or a hybrid such as GWT or Dart. There are seriously too many options and no one has a clue what the long term support for any of these will be.

[akbar501]

GWT is ideal for Java developers who prefer to write in Java, but have to deploy in JavaScript.

Pure JavaScript (or a JavaScript framework) are ideal if you either know JavaScript, or are ok learning the language. IMO, learning JavaScript is a good bet since it is the language of the web. Basically, your web apps will either be written in JS or compile to JS, so knowing the language is worth it.

Dart would be selected over GWT if you don't know Java, but like the lang features of Dart.

Of course, there are tons of options in the 'compile to' langs, with CoffeeScript being a popular on.

[grifpete]

Learning to program in Javascript is like programming in assembler. That may be unavoidable when there are no high level languages, or when those languages and toolsets are immature. But there are serious experts (and people with a lot of experience with very large js programs) who don't see js as the solution. "Goaded by Meijer as to whether it is possible to write big programs in JavaScript, Hejlsberg replied, €œYes, you can, but you can€™t maintain them," much to the delight of the crowd that featured several prominent language and tools designers. €œI think there are some unmet needs there,€ Hejlsberg added. Bracha immediately piped in saying, €œThat€™s part of why we€™re doing Dart. You can write them [large programs in JavaScript]; it€™s terribly hard and afterward you€™ll be punished.€ - See more at: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application-Development/Is-it-Time-...

[camus2]

> Yes, you can, but you can€™t maintain them

Well, i'd say it's more difficult but doable.(And i'm not a fan of javascript).

But tools are being created to help developpers maintain these "large apps".

Code analysis engines are the most important thing to work on in javascript land.I wish more people would work on that instead of framework MVC X or Y.

Something like TernJS ,while not perfect is actually doing interesting thing in term of understanding js code and auto completing it.

Now as I always say,dont like javascript? doesnt matter there are 100 languages you can use instead of it and still write for the web. The only thing that is important imho is wether that language can directly talk to the DOM or not,and invoke third party libraries.

that's why i'm not comfortable with Dart(but maybe it has changed).

I was trying alternative languages the other day and wrote this with one of them,the only thing i had to do to make it run in a browser is eval the transpiled version :

   (define $taskList ($ "#tasks"))
   (define $input ($ "input"))
   (define $form ($ "form"))
   ;; add task
   (define (addTask task)
   	(let ((t ($ "<li>" {"class" "task link"} )))
        (t.on "click" (lambda (event)
                       (t.toggleClass "stroke")))
   	(t.text task)))
   ;;on submit
   ($form.on "submit" (lambda (event)
       ($taskList.append (addTask ($input.val)))
       ($input.val "")
       (event.preventDefault)))

FYI this is the classic todo list with jQuery

There is no shame into writing for the web and not using javascript.At the end of the day,only the product matters.