[ddt]

The term "hipster" has become more or less a catch-all for words such as

* pretentious

* egotistical

* artsy

* self-involved

* preachy

* irreverent

* trendy

and many many more. My favorite thing about the linguistic history of "hipster" is that it started out defined as "one who is hip", but has come to describe both the hip person and the hipness itself. Phrases like "hipster shoes" or "hipster band" come to mind.

[Terr_]

> but has come to describe both the hip person and the hipness itself. Phrases like "hipster shoes" or "hipster band" come to mind.

(Note: Grammar quibbles ahead.)

I don't think your examples really support that. Saying "hipster shoes" doesn't require the shoes to be hip at all, it only means they are a kind that is popularly associated or made for hipsters. Naming something "Hipster X" is just an case of attributive nouns.

Similarly, consider a "Programmer Chair" being sold... Surely nobody is trying to say that the chair is able to code, or that the chair is itself a form of code, or anything like that, right?

Instead, "Programmer Chair" means a chair that is associated-with or belongs-to Programmers.

[NAFV_P]

"Programmer Chair" - I parse that as "the floor".

[austinl]

I think it's interesting that many popular nouns can modify other nouns in English, and that the order of the words matters, e.g. you would never say "shoes hipster"

From A Canticle for Leibowitz:

"In Latin, as in most simple dialects of the region, a construction like servus puer meant about the same thing as puer servus, and even in English slave boy meant boy slave. But there the similarity ended... house cat did not mean cat house, and that a dative of purpose or possession, as in mihi amicus, was somehow conveyed by dog food or sentry box even without inflection."

[sdoowpilihp]

Even more subtly, there are things like adjective order that are also an important part of the english language that most native speakers just learn innately. Saying them out of order doesn't necessarily change the meaning of the phrase, but it sure sounds odd to a native speaker.

As an example, "a cute little paisley cat" would be considered the correct order, while "a paisley cute little cat" would not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjective#Adjective_order

[dreamfactory2]

According to Pinker, every language falls into one of these two categories (meaning conveyed by word order or word case).

[platz]

Although there are lots of examples where people switched the word order. It might not be historicaly accurate, but the example I remember being told is that an 'ear wig' was so named because it went from one's wig to one's ear.

[cheese1756]

I'm sure that Latin is also helped by the fact that word order makes very little difference, while we place a huge emphasis on it in English.

One thing I love about Latin is that you can have the adjective at the start of a sentence and the noun it modifies thirteen lines later (Caesar does this quite a bit), and the sentence is still perfectly readable. In English, not so much.

[angersock]

e.g. you would never say "shoes hipster"

Unless you were describing a person who has a hipster-like behavior in regards to shoes, whereupon it makes complete sense.

It is a little unfortunate to see such a rich vocabulary of derision and ridicule being replaced with a single epitaph.

[bodhi]

> Unless you were describing a person who has a hipster-like behavior in regards to shoes

Wouldn't that be a "shoe hipster"?

[larrys]

"The term "hipster" "

I would say a hipster is someone who thinks that everyone else has it all wrong and is missing the obvious right way to dress, think, live or do something. Which the hipster has all figured out.

The best thing about hipsters is they appear to not care about appearance (as only one example) but then almost always predictably dress a certain "hipster" way in order to conform to the way hipsters are supposed to look.

[bch]

The most interesting definition I've seen is roughly: "one who fetishizes the authentic", but it seems the term has come to be a cheap way to heap scorn on certain categories of fashion.

The word is so overplayed and unuseful it ought to be retired (it's not hip any more).

[adamdavis]

Thanks. I'm well aware of what a hipster is and how the term is used in the context of modern slang, this doesn't really help answer my original question, however.

[ddt]

I guess my point was that hipster is such an ill defined word that trying to understand why a particular thing is or is not hipster is futile.

[adamdavis]

Fair enough. I think that's where we differ - I feel the word isn't quite as ill defined as you suggest, though it is commonly misused. A conversation for another time :)

[l33tbro]

Nonsense.

You've just described the characteristics of a hipster - not a definition.

Not that it matters. Hipster is such a bullshit, reductive pejorative. I find the people that use it either:

a) Don't understand someone or something. Some guy genuinely into a genre of music you've not heard. Is it insecurity? Is it about looking dumb? I'm not sure. But rather than try and engage in an effort to gain knowledge about the genre, people just call it hipster and disengage.

b) Do understand. Someone's trying to do something that is fresh and original to them - but may be old hat to you. Let's say it's being into an alternative author or some kind of fair-trade delicacy. Rather than let this person have their authentic moment in the sun (regardless how unoriginal you know it is) - people label them as hipsters.

TLDR: Calling things hipster is a demonstration of the holier-than-thou attitude it seeks to mock.

[platz]

Here's the (now somewhat old) definitive reference on what a hipster is: http://nymag.com/news/features/69129/

"We do know what hipster means—or at least we should. The term has always possessed adequately lucid definitions; they just happen to be multiple. If we refuse to enunciate them, it may be because everyone affiliated with the term has a stake in keeping it murky. Hipster accusation has been, for a decade, the outflanking maneuver par excellence for competitors within a common field of cool."