[baddox]

> Utility is worthless without getting you something, which is pleasure.

"Utility" is generally defined to mean getting what one desires. It's not abstract. "Pleasure" could be defined in the same way, and if you're defining it to be synonymous with "utility" then that's your choice, but it usually carries the connotation of immediate sensory euphoria whereas "utility" does not. But I don't understand your criticism of the word "utility."

[javert]

I'm not defining pleasure to mean "getting what one desires," hence it is non synonomous with the definition you are using for "utility." Pleasure is a particular sensation.

For instance. If you get something you desire, you may feel pleasure, or you may not. Or maybe you'll feel pleasure for a little while, but not as long as you expected to.

Going in the reverse direction, if you feel pleasure, you may have gotten something you desired, but you may not have---e.g. a massage may feel good even if you didn't expect it to beforehand.

When I talk about "pleasure" I do mean something that you experience in the moment---just like "hot" and "cold." You feel it at a particular time, or not. But that does not exclude a long-term experience of pleasure, such as a general state of emotional happiness. In fact, the latter is what I am more interested in.

Some people associate the word "pleasure" with a necessarily temporary and immediate experience, but that is merely a connotation, it is not the definition of the word.

[baddox]

Why then do you think people should pursue pleasure (your definition) rather than things they desire?

[javert]

Pleasure is the only thing that is inherently valuable to a conscious organism. It feels good.

There would be no reason to pursue the things you desire if pursuing them and/or getting them didn't make you feel good.

If pursuing them and/or getting them does make you feel good, there is a reason to pursue them. But the reason is because they make you feel good---because they bring pleasure.

[baddox]

For me, it feels good to pursue things I desire, even if it involves immediate physical discomfort, like exercise.

[javert]

That is the same as saying: For me, it is pleasurable to pursue things I desire, even if it involved immediate physical discomfort, like exercise.

In fact, if you want to replace "pleasure" in my whole argument with "good feeling," that is perfectly fine.

Separately, I think you may be equating "satisfying desires" with "feeling good." They definitely aren't the same. In fact, you want to pick values (=desires) in your life that are going to maximize feeling good when you pursue and achieve them.