[jrockway]

As a recent Android convert, I am confused by all the "issues" that people keep mentioning. Everything on my phone Just Works. When I change the color of a calendar on Google Calendar, the color on my phone's calendar widget changes. When I change a contact on my phone, GMail and Google Voice update almost instantly. When I dial a number on the normal dialpad, my call is automatically routed through Google Voice. When someone who is not in my contacts calls me, a little message pops up with the White Pages lookup results. (This is a third-party app.) When I feel the need to tweet a picture, I click a button, the camera turns on, I take the picture, write some text, and my picture and tweet are posted. When someone messages me on Google Talk, and my computer's Jabber session is idle, my phone makes a noise and I see their message.

I was on the train today, and wanted to catch up on HN. I read five or six articles, and all of them rendered perfectly in the included browser.

Basically, this is what I consider an absolutely perfect phone experience. I could not be happier, as an end user. (And as a developer, I am really really happy.)

I am just confused as to what these iPhone converts are doing. I think they are expecting an iPhone clone instead of a completely different smartphone.

One more thing. I found this comment especially ignorant:

Android suffers from the same issues that have plagued Linux on the desktop for years: the lack of integration between software and hardware, buggy and under-featured applications, a lack of attention paid to user experience issues. The encouraging openness and bits of innovation in Android are overshadowed by mediocrity.

What does this even mean? I see perfect integration between my apps (and the Google apps on my computer), and of course, the underlying OS kernel has no effect on the user experience unless it is really bad.

[jacobian]

Since you've got no problems with Android, maybe you can solve mine:

- Why does the phone crash when I try to pair with my bluetooth headset?

- Why do all eleventy-billion of my contacts show up in the dialer instead of the relatively small handful who've got phone numbers?

- Why the *@#$% doesn't this thing have a proper headphone jack?

- How do I sync music between my computer and my G1?

- How about podcasts?

- How do I play videos on this thing?

- When I mark a contact as a "favorite", how do I change which phone number gets dialed from the favorite screen?

- Why don't I get autocompletion when I use the hardware keyboard?

- Why does the system freeze for about a second when I rotate it?

- Why do about 25% of the apps I have not work with the soft keyboard?

- Why do another 25% not work in horizontal mode?

- Where's the PDF reader?

- Why can't I read Google documents on this thing?

Shall I continue?

[nuclear_eclipse]

- Why do all eleventy-billion of my contacts show up in the dialer instead of the relatively small handful who've got phone numbers?

Because the Dialer app is listing all of your contacts, because it serves as both the Dialer and the Contacts app all rolled into one.

- Why the @#$% doesn't this thing have a proper headphone jack?

Yell at HTC, not Android.

- How do I sync music between my computer and my G1?

Plug the included USB cable into your PC. Android will pop up a notification allowing you to choose if you want to mount the internal SD card as a drive on the host machine. Use Finder/Nautilus/Explorer to copy music to the drive, or Google for the proper file that tells the PC that your G1's SD card is actually a music device so that your music apps will sync with it.

Arguably, the G1 should do this for you, but what if you put your camera's SD card into the G1? It wouldn't know the difference, but you wouldn't want it to label the SD card as a music player without you asking it to...

- How about podcasts?

Get a podcast app, or see above?

- How do I play videos on this thing?

Use the included YouTube app, or download a file-manager app (I recommend the Linda File Manager) and click on the video from the file manager. Yes, Android should include this type of app out of the box.

- When I mark a contact as a "favorite", how do I change which phone number gets dialed from the favorite screen?

Open the contact, long-press on the desired number, and select Make Default Number.

- Why don't I get autocompletion when I use the hardware keyboard?

Because, arguably, most people using a real keyboard don't generally need/want auto-completion? Also because with the physical keyboard, there's no keyboard "app" being used in the first place, which is what provides the auto-completion you speak of.

- Why does the system freeze for about a second when I rotate it?

Because of the way Android handles apps. When the screen rotates, Android sends the "Stop" signal to the current activity, resets the framebuffer, and then sends the "restart" signal to the activity, more-or-less forcing the activity to save and load its state and rebuild the UI. This allows Android and the application to pick up new resources or new UI layouts based on the new conditions of the phone (new resolution, keyboard availability, etc). See my previous comment on this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=699223

- Why do about 25% of the apps I have not work with the soft keyboard?

Most likely because developers did some funky business under the expectation that the user would be using Android 1.0 and/or the G1's hardware keyboard. Please yell at developers to update their applications.

- Why do another 25% not work in horizontal mode?

Once again, developers can specify that applications only run in certain orientations, which can be useful in certain apps (eg, Solitaire really can't play well in portrait mode). Yell at the developers to knock it off if you disagree.

- Where's the PDF reader?

I believe there's one on the Market.

- Why can't I read Google documents on this thing?

I'm not sure why Google overlooked a native app for Docs, but they worked relatively well through the browser, last time I tried. There are also several "Office" apps on the Market, if you're interested...

Shall I continue?

I'd be happy to answer, refute, or agree with more complaints if you can keep them civil.

[mrshoe]

I'm not a huge fan of the iPhone's closed nature, but I think most of what you said above could be considered arguments in favor of it.

For example: yell at the hardware manufacturer instead of the software developer; yell at the app developers; if you need that functionality, go buy a 3rd party app; it's slow because of OS implementation details; it doesn't work as you'd expect it because of implementation details; Google's own apps work relatively well.

Users don't care about why something is slow or broken (from their perspective). They shouldn't have to care. They don't want to go find an app in the Market for basic functionality, and they don't want to write a Perl script, either. Apple gets this. I hope Google and their partners will some day.

Users don't want answers to these questions. The list of questions you replied to was a rhetorical way of saying this: the iPhone user experience is far superior.

[jrockway]

Users don't care about why something is slow or broken (from their perspective).

This cuts both ways. An iPhone user doesn't care why Apple rejects good apps from the app store. An iPhone user doesn't care why his phone can't vibrate when someone uses his name in a tweet or pings him on IRC or talks to him via GTalk. An iPhone user doesn't care why his phone can't turn its ringer off during appointments, and set it to "ultra loud" when he is in his house.

Sure, Apple has technical explanations for all these things, but it doesn't make them go away.

It is all a matter, right now, of trading one set of problems for another. "Is iTunes sync worth not having Google Voice?", and so on.

Nobody is claiming Android is perfect, but it is important the keep in mind that Apple is not either.

[unalone]

Nobody thinks Apple is perfect. The people John Gruber named are all people who are huge in the Apple world but quit the iPhone in protest. John Gruber himself blasts Apple harder and more accurately than most Apple critics.

This whole "Apple is perfect" thing is a straw man that I've seen many times before. The argument isn't that Apple's perfect. The argument's that Apple is really, really, really good, and that its competitors' products aren't as polished as its own products. Android's advantages, as you highlight here, are certainly appealing to some people, but not to mass consumers, who care more about smooth than they do about extensible.

[andreyf]

Agree about hardware, but when it comes to the app store, I think the market is a better decider than Apple is re: what works well and what's broken. The one Hard Problem there is to make sure users can make informed decisions about their apps - for example, which app is using extraneous processing/battery.

[potatolicious]

You've told us why these things are the way they are, but I get the feeling you feel that this alone justifies these gigantic UI holes.

- because it serves as both the Dialer and the Contacts app all rolled into one.

Is this a good idea? When I'm in my Dialer, presumably I only want to call people. Surely the system should sense context (likewise, if I'm in the email app, it should show contacts for whom I have no email!).

- or Google for the proper file that tells the PC that your G1's SD card is actually a music device

Basic, fundamental functionality should not involve Googling for anything.

- Open the contact, long-press on the desired number, and select Make Default Number.

Invisible and undiscoverable except by accident - this is a UI failure. The fact that this is not displayed implies to the user that it cannot be changed. At least show which number it dials (e.g. on iphone it's "mobile", "home", etc).

- Because of the way Android handles apps. When the screen rotates...

Not a good enough excuse I don't think. Yeah, that's the way Android works, but it's still a huge UI failure that snaps users out of the experience and takes away from the fit-and-finish of the software significantly. Note that iPhone can do this transition smoothly, and applications can still pick up new resources, UI layouts, etc.

... at the end of the day there are a few rules of thumb I think:

- Users care far more about the fit and finish of your software than they do about its strict functionality - i.e. you can get away with lacking functionality, but nobody will forgive you for poor UX.

- Users don't really care if "there's an app for that" when it comes to what they consider to be basic functionality. Include the basic goodies (PDF reader for example, music sync software for example) with the box or your users will walk, regardless of how much you point at the app store.

This is the gist of the article I think. Android is a capable platform, but so far nobody has gone over with a fine toothed comb like Apple has and gotten rid of all of the little annoying bits.

[jfno67]

Having done the switch from my iPhone 3G to an HTC Magic I find both of these phones are far from perfect. I may switch back again, but believe me, both still have problems.

-My iPhone would not rotate when I was rotating my phone, I had to do it 2-3 times or exit safari and restart in the landscape orientation for it to switch. At other time the orientation changed but the width was not changed.

-I'm not a big fan of reboot so every 2 or 3 days safari would just start to crash on page load with no reason. Only solved by a reboot.

-On the reboot front, once I made everyone at home change there time. Since my phone is taking it's time from the cell provider and this as always worked correctly on my many Motorola phones, I told everybody they were 10 minutes forward. The day after, at work I saw the time on a friends iPhone and it was also 10 minutes forward. This made no sense, we have the same provider. It was probably more than a week since my last reboot. Android may have the same problem, I don't know.

-OS 3 gave us the search but before that remembering on which page some of the less used apps were was just a pain. I still don't like this way of organizing, but I lack a better solution.

-Talk about obscure way of doing some action on the iPhone. As an example, have you taken a screenshot? The way to do it appeared to you how?

-I think the HTC magic has too many buttons, but the iPhone lacks some. Even after a year of using my iPhone, I still sometimes closed the application with the home button while I was just trying to back off one level. In fact the back button on the Android and the way application stack themselves is really superior.

The iPhone 3Gs finally has a camera. Come on the 3G was not even able to read bar codes (except with red laser, doing image correction and enhancement)

After 2 weeks without my iPhone what I miss the most is the vibration/ringer switch. This is a great feature.

The one feature that keeps me from going back on the Android is the notifications "pull down"

One last thing, latitude on Android is awesome;-)

[thwarted]

Is [it serving as both the Dialer and the Contacts app all rolled into one] a good idea? When I'm in my Dialer, presumably I only want to call people. Surely the system should sense context (likewise, if I'm in the email app, it should show contacts for whom I have no email!).

There is a "dialer" app that shows the phone pad. There is a contacts app tha shows all your contacts. While the device has phone functionality, it actually does a lot more, and showing all your contacts, and all the methods to contact them, actually makes sense when you have multiple methods (voice, SMS, IM, email) available. The contacts list even shows you if someone is currently on IM.

[Open the contact, long-press on the desired number, and select Make Default Number is] Invisible and undiscoverable except by accident - this is a UI failure. The fact that this is not displayed implies to the user that it cannot be changed.

Just like the long hold on the icons on the iphone so you can move them around and rearrange them (and then they shake?) is invisible and undiscoverable except by accident. It took me forever to find out how to do this on my iPod touch.

[nailer]

The 'People' app in the Hero also dolves a long running prob I had with my iPhone.

Say I know Jeff sent me a website to look at. I can't remember whether this was via SMS or email.

* On iPhone, I had to open SMS, find messages, close SMS, open email.

* On Android, I just find Jeff's entry in people and look at everything he sent me - SMS, email, and calls.

[potatolicious]

I didn't know that, that does sound like a good feature :) This is the point the author was trying to get at though, I think. Right now the vanilla Android "distro" isn't compelling - the UI is pretty mediocre and there are some pretty gigantic rifts in the user experience.

We need a vendor to come in and "iPhone-ify" the experience. Smooth out the rough edges and finish the "full package" (e.g. music/podcast sync out of the box). I haven't looked into the Hero enough to know if they're it...

[jacobian]

That, my friends, is what's called "missing the forest for the trees." Yes, every single one of my question has an easy answer. Yup, just need to install this app or activate this hidden preference or tweak my Xorg.conf, or learn to live with the problem...

Using this device is like the death of a thousand cuts. None are even remotely fatal, but over time there's just a mounting list of little annoyances. Everything's 95%; nothing Just Works. I stopped using Linux on the desktop because I didn't want to have to be a sysadmin on my personal hardware; having to monkey with my phone is even less my idea of a good time.

My iPhone bit the dust, so I've been using a G1 that Google graciously gave me for free. I really want to like it! After just a couple days with it, though, I'm nearly ready to plunk down cash for a new iPhone. Google's seriously got a problem if they can't even get me to use their platform at the price free (actually, I'll save $200 if I stick with Android, so it's even worse).

[jrockway]

I can do the "death by a thousand cuts" thing to the iPhone just as easily as you can do it to Android. Every user has different priorities.

(You also mentioned Xorg.conf. I have not had one of those for years.)

[dcurtis]

The flaws in the iPhone are almost always made to improve the user experience. The flaws in Android seem to be made out of incompetence.

[jacobian]

Ah, so if the iPhone is flawed that makes all of Android's flaws go away. Finally, I understand! Thanks!

[jrockway]

Actually, yes. There's a limit to what a $200 phone can do. If nobody has The Ideal Device, you will have to choose an approximation. How those approximations are flawed vary between devices.

[avinashv]

> I stopped using Linux on the desktop because I didn't want to have to be a sysadmin on my personal hardware.

When did you stop using Linux? I have had either a laptop or desktop with Linux installed (Ubuntu, Gentoo and DSL) since 2003/4 and spend just as much time customizing it as my Mac or Windows installations. I actually save time in the long run, because of the magic of apt-get.

Everbody gives this logic, but I've installed Linux on plenty for non-techies, and they have no problems--at least, not more than they would have had.

(One of my laptops, for the life of me, would not hook up to an external monitor. That's it.)

[gonzo]

My 3G got stolen (out of my home). I have an ADP1, which I carried in France for 2 months this summer. (The ADP1 comes unlocked, so it was simple to get an Orange "Pay-as-you-Go" SIM and install it.

So I carried and used the ADP1 every day for two months (plus about a month during late March/early April before I switched back to my iPhone 2G with a cracked screen.)

yes, the ADP1 is running (the official) cupcake release.

Within 24 hours of arriving back home, I went out an bought an iPhone 3GS.

The usability of the combination of Android+HTC's Dream is pure crap. Its functional, sure, but its not usable.

I too stopped using linux on the desktop (I've converted the company to Apple over the last 2 years.) apt-get can screw you, too.

We do use linux on two production webservers, and we ship a ton (no really, at least 2,000 lbs) of FreeBSD on various hardware every month.

[kalid]

Not to pick on you, but this is a great example of why open source usability languishes.

Customers don't want to get into the nitty gritty on anything. A stock iPhone "just works" (syncing, videos, etc) without needing anything extra. It's hard to overvalue this.

Second, people love to do feature-by-feature comparisons. I liken this to having a choice between 1) a sandwich and 2) the same ingredients in a blender.

"Oh, the nutritional value is the same! It's easier to eat!" The value of "taste" (literal and figurative) is completely lost -- I don't know how to explain it aside from that. We don't want our food in liquid form, even though the results may be the same. Yet the blender vendor continues to be confused about why people don't want his "identical" (superior?) product.

And that's assuming the products are identical but packaged differently. Dozens of annoyances like "just install this, just tweak that" turn into "Just add salt, just microwave it, just use this spice and my blended concoction will be great!".

[nailer]

"A stock iPhone "just works" (syncing, videos, etc) without needing anything extra. "

Depends on what you're trying to do. Syncing with my iPhone required plugging in a cable and doing a manual sync. Syncing with Android doesn't really exist: it's just always up to date, and doesn't need syncing.

The default Android video player could support more formats out of the box could be better. Then again, there are about 50 useful, everyday things I can do with Android that I couldn't with my iPhone - see my contacts on the map, not lose data when closing apps, publically stream video direct from my phone to the web, copy files to the device.

Also iPhone Safari crashed constantly when reading large engadget articles on every iPhone firmware from 1.01 to 3.00. Android's browser is far more reliable.

[jrockway]

BTW, you're wrong about the contacts thing. A config option will do exactly what the OP wants.

(But thanks for answering the other questions. I am glad I am not the only person who likes Android :)

[dannyr]

Same here. I love my G1. I don't understand why jacobian just hates it so much. I admit there are quirks and a lot of issues but I don't plan on switching to the IPhone anytime soon.

[rgrieselhuber]

These responses, with all due respect, remind me of the answers that Linux promoters provide to mainstream consumers when trying to defend that particular OS.

They don't address the core need that the consumer has, which is a whole product that just works. Apple, at the moment, is doing a far better job.

[jrockway]

Dunno.

I get Google Docs just fine. Google for "Google Docs", tap the first result, and there they all are.

I sync my music with a Perl script that looks at my xmms2 playlist and copies the music in there to the phone. (Not possible with the iPhone, BTW.)

What you consider major flaws are things I have never had a problem with. I do have a few contacts with no phone numbers, but I can also tap them to chat with them via GTalk. (A green light appears next to their name when they are online. Cool!)

Nothing is perfect, nor will it ever be. With the iPhone, you are stuck with whatever Apple says you are stuck with. With Android, you are stuck with whatever you decide not to write.

BTW, one complaint: I wish I had the Kindle app for this phone.

Some other things:

The iPhone is just as bad with respect to proprietary connectors. If you don't have an Offical Apple Cable, you can't even charge your phone. With the HTC devices, you just plug in a standard mini-USB cable. Tradeoff.

[mrshoe]

I sync my music with a Perl script that looks at my xmms2 playlist and copies the music in there to the phone.

For some reason I don't think this is exactly what Gruber had in mind when he said, "The goal should be to make a phone that is better than the iPhone. Better."

[jrockway]

It's better for me.

I think a lot of people design systems for imaginary users that don't actually exist. I try to make stuff that works for me, because then at least it works for one person.

(I assume "normal people" use some sort of GUI for this. If you are using Amarok, for example, it's a simple matter of drag-n-dropping your playlist to the icon that says "Android Phone".)

[unalone]

"Normal people", by which I mean myself, want to plug in their iPhone and have all of their stuff synced without ever clicking any button. Drag-n-drop is nice, but even that's more of a hassle than I care to bother with.

[krschultz]

"Normal people", by which I mean myself, want to plug their iPhone in and NOT have it sync, because I have more music than can fit on it, so auto-sync for a subset of my playlist is nice, but even that's more of a hassle than I care to bother with.

[igorgue]

I don't use iTunes, how do I copy music to my iphone? btw, I use Ubuntu...

On the Android part I sync my music with Banshee ;)

[tedunangst]

"I think a lot of people design systems for imaginary users that don't actually exist."

If I had to determine, based on previous personal observations, which was more likely to exist, iTunes users or perl script users, I would have to conclude that you are imaginary.

[nailer]

I sync music to my Hero with iTunes using DoubleTwist on my Mac, since I came from iPhone and have my playlists in iTunes.

My wife syncs music her G1 using Windows Media Player, because she's used it for years and likes it.

People who use Linux plug in their phone and Banshee syncs to it.

I don't think iPhone does WMP or Banshee. Sure, it's made by Apple, but my wife doesn't really care: she just want's it to work with her computer, without having to change all her software.

[litewulf]

For the second one, go to your contacts list, hit menu and select groups. There is an option to limit to contacts with phone numbers. I have no idea why that isn't the default.

Videos, there is an application called "Video Player" that actually, well, plays videos.

[BillGoatse]

I'm guessing you're on the G1?

I picked up an HTC Hero (More or less the G3, but I don't think out in the US yet) yesterday. The way it's going, I think I may love this phone more than my child.

Most of your problems are gone with this generation. It even has a standard headphone jack.

Android is catching up, fast.

[nailer]

Same here - iPhone user for two years, got my Hero a couple of weeks ago. I'm in love.

Tip: make sure you get a Class 6 SDHC card if you're going to use a lot of apps at once.

[BillGoatse]

Thanks! I haven't updated my SD yet.

[albemuth]

>>- Why do all eleventy-billion of my contacts show up in the dialer instead of the relatively small handful who've got phone numbers?

Contacts -> Menu -> Display Group -> Contacts with phone numbers

[mcantelon]

That's quite a list. I'm with you on the annoyance with apps that don't work with the soft keyboard, but that's due to developer lag.

I had no trouble finding a video app in the app store that worked fine.

A good PDF viewer is RepliGo Reader. It's $8 US, but no available in some Android Markets (such as Canada).

[boucher]

to be fair, the iPhone is at the same place or worse on several of these issues.

[al3x]

But does that excuse issues with a platform that's intended to compete with the iPhone? The whole point of Gruber's piece is that Android is going to have to exceed the standard set by the iPhone in order to capture mindshare with early adopters who then encourage wider adoption.

[jsz0]

Engadget is reporting the G1, due to internal flash limitations, may be stuck at version 1.5 forever. Really horrible situation for such a young platform to already be having these issues.

[hboon]

Any idea if this applies to the dev phone? If it does, developers are screwed.

[mr_justin]

Some of the issues you are complaining about can be cured with a setting (syncing contacts). Some should not be features of an open handset using non-proprietary technology (syncing music), some are legitimate bugs though not everybody has them (crash when pairing) and some are just rants.

[nwatson]

don't know about your other issues, but I love DoggCatcher (see Android Market) for podcasts. I'm in no way affiliated with the developer. Downloads programs in the background ... when I want news/interviews/talk-show I have plenty.

I used the phone for talk, lots of web browsing, podcasts, and music, mostly. The music transfer is lacking ... I just do file copies. YouTube works fine, haven' tried transferring videos.

[al3x]

As the author of that "especially ignorant" quote, I'll try to explain what I meant.

When talking about Linux on the desktop, I'm not talking about the kernel, per se. Mostly, I'm talking about the user experience as informed by GNOME, KDE, and other Linux/Unix desktop environments, which have not been particular successes; Android's UX is a bit like GNOME on a phone, even if it doesn't use GTK widgets. This is to say that most of the applications are pale copies of standard applications on other mobile platforms, and that the UX is generally clunky.

When it does come to the kernel, I'm mostly talking about the difficulty of having an operating system that's designed to support a large variety of hardware. Perhaps I've gotten lemons, but the Android phones I've used seem to have a tentative relationship with their network interfaces.

I would actually welcome a platform that isn't an iPhone clone; that's why I got interested in Android in the first place. Android doesn't need to behave exactly like an iPhone to be a success in my book. It just needs to adhere to the same general level of quality control: things look good, they work right, the interface is intuitive, the hardware is speedy, third-party apps work 90% of the time. I don't care if the interface metaphors or hardware form factor is completely different. It just needs to not suck.

[hedgehog]

Which handset is this on? How's your battery life? I have an iPhone but I'm thinking about making the switch for two main reasons: first that things like VOIP apps and Google voice won't happen on the iPhone, and second that Android's security model is vastly better. The thing is, I've spent some time with the myTouch at the T-mobile store and performance was terrible (app launching, returning to launcher screen, scrolling web pages, software keyboard). I've written an Android app but we really mostly ran it in simulation... Then again, it could have just been the floor model's problem. How would you compare performance in extended usage with the iPhone?

[jrockway]

I have the T-Mobile myTouch 3G.

The battery life is a lot better than my old Windows Mobile phone, but I have not gotten anywhere near running low yet, so I can't really comment. My impression is that heavy use does not really run the battery down that quickly.

Performance really depends on what you have in the background. K9 totally kills it for me, because my IMAP server sucks. Google Sky Map and the Market sometimes lag for me. Google Reader can also be very slow. Otherwise, everything is good. I have a task manager installed, but since I stopped using K9, I have not needed it.

It is not a flawless experience, of course, but so much works incredibly well that I don't really care. Google does care about the details (changing colors, syncing contacts), and the third-party apps are really cool. (I forgot to mention Locale above; it's awesome! I never forget to turn my ringer on at home.)

[jfno67]

I have the HTC ion, which is I think the same as the myTouch. Performance is similar to what I was getting on my iPhone 3G doing mostly web, emails, messages and phone functions. My battery life is shorter than on my iPhone though, I pretty much have to charge it every night. If I don't then I'll have to keep the usage to a minimum the next day.

So battery is not as good, but the notifications are always timely, since they work in background and latitude keeps my position updated, those are probably the culprit for shorter battery life.

[nailer]

Battery life on HTC Hero is about the same as a first gen iPhone: one day with my usage (heavy web browsing and games).

[lacker]

People who switch to an Android after using an iPhone for a long time are going to interpret anything different as poor UI design. That said, I think the iPhone browsing and app experience is superior, whereas the Android email and chat experience is far superior due to background tasks and the notification tray.

[runinit]

They probably mean "it doesnt' work with itunes"

[albemuth]

Yeah, morons, they should just do rsync or something right?

[nailer]

Sure it does - get DoubleTwist. It also works with WMP and Banshee out of the box.

[rimantas]

I am just confused as to what these iPhone converts are doing.

That's exactly why iPhone is superior (so far): it is not about what, it is about how

[mcantelon]

In other words, iPhone is about style over substance.

[rimantas]

it is about user experience, not about style.

[stcredzero]

So long as people discount "user experience" as the most valuable "substance," they will continue to lose contests against Apple.

[rimantas]

Btw, anyone downmoding me cares at least to say, which part you disagree with: do you think that Andoroid phones are superior, do you think it is not about how; or both; or are you just not happy with the way things are? :)

[jrockway]

I did not downmod you, but I don't really understand what you are trying to say. You emphasized some vague words, but adding stars everywhere does not really help get the point across.

Please explain in detail what you mean.

[rimantas]

Ok, imagine 12 hour transatlantic flight. What is about what you did — you flew across Atlantic. Then ther is the how part — it can be either in economy class with no legroom, crammed between to sweaty, drunk and snoring gentlemen or it can be in private jet. Is the difference between what and how any more clear now, or is is still vague?

Update: I do not say that Android phones are economy class and iPhone is private jet. The point of the above is to explain what I meant by difference between what and how.

[jrockway]

Not really the same thing. iPhone vs. Android is more like comparing business class on BA vs. business class on AA. Both are nice, but neither are first class. (And just like with the phones, it's a trade-off. BA has pretty awful food, and AA's seat does not lay 180 degrees flat.)