[mbillie1]

Can you elaborate on this? I think it would be virtually impossible to prevent suicide, not to mention various things perhaps not treated as suicide but which are self-caused deaths (repeatedly engaging in very-very-high-risk activity, for example).

[dfc]

There are lots of cultural and legal forces that deter suicide. (hopefully you were not being pedantic with prevent/deter)

  * Cultural shame of surviving family.
  * Suicide is a sin in some religions.
  * Suicide voids most life insurance policies.

[matteotom]

I think in most cases, suicide only voids life insurance policies for the first 2 years of having the policy. It makes sense, since it prevents people from buying life insurance when they plan to kill themselves.

[evanlivingston]

I mean that suicide is perceived as something to prevent, but I don't often see the conversation about _why_ we are preventing it. Clinical depression is a beast, and many people who pursue treatment seriously continue to struggle with it their whole lives. I think great minds like David Foster Wallace prove how persistent depression is. Suicide is a real escape from the incredible pain that depression can cause, yet we continue to culturally perpetuate the taboo of suicide. The question is; Why is it not okay for people to kill themselves?

[dfc]

Why did it take "a great mind like DFW" to accept how persistent depression is? I doubt you meant it but I found the dfw bit to be offensive. You seem to deny the serious pain and suffering my friend experienced simply because he was not a celebrity and/or had an average IQ? The reason I say it is offensive (and that you did not intend it to be) is that it seems as if pre-DFW you assumed my friend was just not smart enough to out think depression, or that given his mediocore mind/life, depression would not need to be that powerful and persistent in order for him to realize the loss of his life was no big deal.

In my opinion the better question to ask would be "Why is it not okay for depressives to kill themselves?" The taboo is related to a very specific suicide. When an individual has brain cancer it is euthanasia, when the individual has depression it is suicide.

[evanlivingston]

Sorry to cause offense, I understand what you're saying. The news of DFW death was popular here on HN, and I was using him as an appeal to authority.

I wanted to bring up the difference between suicide and euthanasia, I think it's critical to understanding the issue culturally.

[dfc]

I should have said "it could be offensive if I thought you recognized/intended." I have no reason to think you are a bad person, so no harm no foul. The fact that you are thinking about this and asking questions is evidence of a certain level of compassion and intelligence.

DFW wrote a lot of Infinite Jest three blocks south of me and across the street from the coop where I buy groceries. It is still kind of eerie walking by the house with a bag of groceries.

[chaired]

When it happens to a high-profile figure, people grapple with the issues in the public sphere. It raises awareness.

[thinkharder]

With the exception of people who commit suicide in terminal end-of-life situations (terminal cancer, or similar), folks who are attempt or commit suicide because of depression, aren't thinking straight. The depressed brain senses, feels and interprets things differently than the same brain not depressed. So the idea is that the person isn't well, and their decision making process isn't working right. The decision to commit suicide is the result of hopelessness brought on by the brain misinterpreting the person's situation and perceiving that the only way to escape the situation is death. The person doesn't want to die, per se. They just want the pain to end. With that in mind, to allow a depressed person to commit suicide is basically failing to treat a person's health problem, and them dying as a result of it.

I'm a proponent of allowing people to make that choice when they have the wherewithal do so. Someone who is dying of a painful terminal illness, etc, end of life is no one's choice but yours. But the suicidally depressed person can't make that decision rationally. It's like making any decision under the weight of extremely strong emotion, only it's an order of magnitude more powerful than what most people will experience in their lives. The suicidal person is ill, and needs help. It's the fact that they can't find help that brings them to suicide.

[slc]

"folks" aren't thinking straight ? This sort of attitude is a huge part of the problem. This is why people don't seek mental help - dehumanization.

[meric]

One cause of suicide is emotional pain, and at times it is inflicted (accidentally or intentionally) by others in society. Not preventing suicide would mean we give up solving the actual problem of inflicted emotional pain. At the same time, IMHO, the focus is on suicide prevention rather than catering the emotional needs of individuals because there's a tendency for society in aggregate to only solve problems at the last minute. i.e. Society doesn't care about your health until you reach the emergency room. It doesn't care about your emotional pain until you attempt suicide. It doesn't care about your career until you become unemployed.