[graeme]

Serious question: is someone who attempts suicide in the same group as someone who successfully commits suicide?

For instance, far more men commit suicide. But far more women attempt suicide:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide

I'm sure there are other differences. To me, the questions are:

1. Why do people fail at suicide attempts?

2. Will information that dissuades a failed suicide attempt dissuade someone from making a successful suicide attempt?

[Swizec]

A lot of people don't _actually_ want to commit suicide. Humans generally speaking do not want to die, but when you're there, it feels like the only option.

I distinctly remember feeling that my brain wanted me to die, but I personally was not of the same opinion at all. So what I did was call up a friend and basically said "You have an hour to convince me not to do this". It worked, I'm here.

But I feel that when trying to commit suicide, you will instinctively do everything in your power to botch the attempt. Because what you're looking for isn't death per se, it's clarity and resolution. Mostly you just want "it" to stop, any sort of traumatic experience can be surprisingly helpful with that.

[rhuppert]

1. Men are more "successful" because they tend to use more violent methods - guns, jumping off high places, etc. Women are more likely to use pills. Sometimes attempts are more of a call for help than ending one's life. 2. Your question is unclear to me, but most people who have attempted and failed to commit suicide regret that decision.

[graeme]

I suppose I meant: will the stories of suicide survivors help stop those who are planning to commit suicide, using a method that is likely to succeed?

But of course stopping suicide attempts (that are destined to fail) is a worthy goal too.

[wolfgke]

> 2. Your question is unclear to me, but most people who have attempted and failed to commit suicide regret that decision.

Couldn't this thesis explained by selection bias? I mean if you don't regret your suicid decision, you'll probably try again (and again) until you succeed. This IMHO biases the survivers strongly towards those who regret it.

[pantalaimon]

Apparently not so in China?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide#C...

[sirdogealot]

Perhaps china is tougher on their Women than their men?

>It has been found that suicide makes up for about 30% of deaths of women living in rural China.

Wow... that must be pretty bad for them living out there. Can you imagine living in a place where there was a 1 in 3 chance you'd off yourself before dying naturally? Wow... just wow.

[mbillie1]

Well, in answer to 1., often suicide is attempted at times of extreme emotional volatility - in other words, when it's easy to make a mistake. Additionally, suicide is almost always linked to depression, which manifests itself in a whole host of ways. It's easy to say "just point a gun at your head and shoot, what's so hard about that?" Well it's terrifying, which is emotional. It costs money to acquire a gun, and money problems are highly associated with depression. It's a social activity, and social anxiety often is related to suicidal behavior, etc.

If it were a decision like "which toothpaste works better", and you could calmly evaluate evidence and act impartially, I imagine there would be fewer suicide attempts, fewer suicides, and a higher percentage of attempts would succeed. But this is a vastly different sort of thing, an intrinsically uninstinctual act. This is just speculation, but I would guess that the rare cases where the suicidal person is overwhelmingly justified by his or her decision (Goering killing himself painlessly rather than being tried and hanged), the success rate improves.

In response to 2., I have no idea - that is an empirical question. But it's an interesting question, and it's good to see the topic discussed in the media as it generally is quite taboo.

[id]

Committing suicide is actually very difficult. All humans have a strong will to survive, which is always present, even if you are suicidal. Additionally, a painless, nonviolent suicide needs a lot of preparation, which isn't exactly easy either if you are lethargic.

[sirdogealot]

A friend of a friend of mine's experience answers your number 1 question:

He wasn't very good at aiming, apparently. When he shot the bullet into his head, probably in a drunken stupor, he missed his brain and lived... probably still wanting to shoot himself and succeed, but being physically unable to do so at this point he just lay there until someone found him.

By the time he recovered in hospital from the wound, he wanted to live! Albeit with a very disfigured face, which I thought would be a hinderence to an already depressed individual, but he sees it differently and we're all glad for it!

[chaired]

1. I'm surprised how often the simple matter of difficulty is skirted. I've been wholeheartedly and single-mindedly motivated to off myself in the past, and it is hard to do. I don't know how to get a gun, and if I had one, I wouldn't know what to do with it. Jumping from height requires enormous courage to override the instinctive refusal to do it. Hanging requires tremendous endurance of pain: hanging your whole body by your neck hurts!!!, and you do not go out right away. As far as the pills that would actually work, I would not know where to get them.

You could say if I was truly motivated, I would learn how to overcome one or more of these obstacles. Well that's a moving goalpost. I maintain that I was motivated to try whatever I had at my disposal, and I was not able to determine whether it was actually possible.

[altero]

It is not suicide attempt if you are not planning to die. For example drug overdose is not necessary suicide attempt.

Men in general are treated like a shit, so they kill themselfs. Most women are emotionally blackmailing their families.

[mbillie1]

This post consists of 1) an undocumented / unproven assertion, 2) a laughable generalization, and 3) an offensive generalization.

[id]

I would say it's all three combined.

[chaired]

I'm not saying what he said was valid, but I am saying that neither being offensive nor being a generalization needs to have a bearing on truth value.

Another: All else being equal, women get a lot of attention and praise, while men generally have to compete harder for such things.

[mbillie1]

> neither being offensive nor being a generalization needs to have a bearing on truth value.

Of course, but neither being offensive nor being a generalization (especially of that magnitude) belongs in a mature discussion, either.

> All else being equal, women get a lot of attention and praise, while men generally have to compete harder for such things.

All else, however, is not equal. Feel free to examine average salaries in the US, or perhaps simple human rights in many other countries.

[altero]

What part do you actually disagree with?

If you have two persons with the same body mass, both of them drink 1 liter of whiskey. I bet in one case it will be 'really bad hangover' and in second case it will be 'suicide attempt'.

[mbillie1]

I disagree with absurd stereotypes such as "men in general are treated like shit" and "most women are emotionally blackmailing their families".

[altero]

OK. Let's do the stats.

Men are 95% of homeless, 90% of prisoners, 95% workplace deaths, 80% suicides...

In second case:

I went unnecessary offensive, call it "most women cry for help" whatever.

The fact is that people who are at risk of suicidal behavior are equally distributed between genders [1]. Also mental illnesses such as schizophrenia are equally distributed [wikipedia].

So I see two options why women have much higher suicidal attempt rate:

- it is a cry for help

- men suicide attempts are under reported

[1] www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9501750

[dang]

Gender trolling is not welcome on Hacker News. Repeated, off-topic gender trolling is particularly unwelcome. Please do not do this again.