[ceejayoz]

> Apparently the US State Department didn't learn from its arrogance in Iraq, because such blatant provocation shouldn't have been allowed.

Provocation: Letting Ukraine voluntarily choose closer ties with the West

Not Provocation: Invading and annexing the Crimea

Gotcha.

Also, since when is the US State Department in charge of the EU?

[Perdition]

>Provocation: Letting Ukraine voluntarily choose closer ties with the West

Ukraine should have been quietly told that joining NATO or the EU was not possible.

>Not Provocation: Invading and annexing the Crimea

Strawman: This.

What Russia did is absolutely wrong IMO, but it is expected (just like the US doesn't like anyone else messing with South America or the Caribbean).

>Also, since when is the US State Department in charge of the EU?

The US has been the primary power in Western Europe since the 8th of May 1945. The US can directly control who enters NATO, and wields significant influence over the primary EU members. The possibility of Ukraine joining NATO or the EU would have gone through State and should have been firmly rejected.

EDIT: Downvotes and no replies, I can't tell whether I am on Hacker News or reddit.

[PeterisP]

The concept of "should have been quietly told that joining .. was not possible" is immoral.

Nations have a right of self-determination. Russia and USA can argue for their interests, but if USA and Russia agree "oh, country X will be in your sphere of influence" without giving country X a voice and a veto-vote there - that is evil and insulting to people living in those nations, just as Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement before WW2.

Such divisions should be unacceptable to the global community.

[AnimalMuppet]

Well said. But...

Putin probably remembers his history. In World War II, Germany nearly overran Russia, and it started from the middle of Poland. If it had been able to start from the eastern border of Ukraine, Russia might well have not survived.

So Putin may feel, historically, that Russia's survival is at stake if Ukraine joins NATO. (I am not saying that Putin's desire to control Ukraine is moral or ethical. I am merely saying that it is understandable.)

[democracy]

Not directly in charge, but close...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/bolivia-angered-by...

[ceejayoz]

The UK's GCHQ is just as interested in nabbing Snowden as the NSA.