[dmoney]

> But before telling someone to hire a lawyer, you should make sure that the case in question is not taking place in a country where doing this is generally taken as a big offense.

Interesting. Can you give an example of such a place, and how things tend to work there? What would be your advice to the founder if they were in that country?

[Hermel]

Continental European countries usually work that way. When Germans say "die sprechen nur noch über ihre Anwälte" (translation: they used to have a good relationship but now they only speak through their lawyers to each other), it means that the trust between two parties is broken beyond repair. Generally, by unilaterally involving a lawyer, you signal that there is no hope left to settle disputes on a basis of trust and friendship. Consequently, my advise to the founder would be to discuss the situation with the co-founders and then try to do what's best for the company. The first priority should always be to find a solution by talking directly to each other. Telling the founder to hire a lawyer before having had an open discussion with the CEO is really bad advice.

[roel_v]

Eh, no, also in Germany it's perfectly normal to have a lawyer consulting on business matters with potential big impacts.

[Hermel]

Not to the same degree. The US spends a much higher share of GDP on lawyers than most other countries.

What I find disgusting is the culture of hiring a lawyer to put as many traps as possible into a contract, which forces the other party to hire another lawyer to remove the traps again. This does not make anyone better off except for the lawyers.

Healthy and lasting business relationships are built on trust. The relationship between McDonald's and Coca-Cola is based on a simple hand-shake. If you want to preserve such a relationship and it comes to a disagreement, the first thing you should do is talking to each other. Once that fails, you can consult the lawyer - which will formalize everything and slow the process down (e.g. "I cannot disuss this today because I have to check with my lawyer first"). And being slow is one of the things one should avoid when being in a startup.

[roel_v]

"The relationship between McDonald's and Coca-Cola is based on a simple hand-shake."

...

Look there is no reasonable discourse possible with idiocy like this. If you think a sustainable business is possible without covering your legal grounds, I'm wondering if you'd be interested in this bridge in Brooklyn I have for sale. Blanket statements like 'the US spends a much higher share of its GDP on lawyers' don't mean a thing without a proper understanding of the legal system, business culture etc. It is obvious from your postings in this thread you know nothing about what lawyers actually do for a business, in the US nor in Germany, and that your statements are based on what you see on TV and blind prejudices.

(disclaimers: I have a law degree but have never practiced. I'm not an American, yet I have spend amounts on lawyers the last years that you probably feel are obscene, and this in a country that is considered similar to Germany in its look on lawyers, and they were worth every penny, and then some. I have also paid dearly in the past for not doing things the formal legal way, including in Germany.)