[veidr]

This is one of those things that long-time expats that live in Japan often take back with them when they leave. Another is the practice of removing your (utterly filthy, inevitably) outdoor shoes when you enter the house.

I read Shogun as a kid (great book, for a little kid) and going back home to the USA and using the toilet there always reminds me of the scenes where the European sailors that shipwrecked in Japan sit around scratching their fleas and scoffing at the Japs' grotesque habit of bathing every day... gross

[afterburner]

Canadians don't wear their shoes indoors either. Because of tracking melting snow indoors (so the habit sticks any other time), or the less comfortable shoes due to such weather, and probably because homes in colder climates are heated a little better, so shoes get uncomfortably hot.

But it just makes sense, even in dry summer weather. Or is it blasting AC that makes shoes necessary?

[k-mcgrady]

This was one of the things that took me by surprise in Canada. At home I would do it if someone asked me but in Canada even the cable guy and the construction guy removed their shoes as soon as they entered without being asked. Surprising considering they were also going in and out to their van and had to put the shoes on/off repeatedly.

[ekianjo]

> the European sailors that shipwrecked in Japan sit around scratching their fleas and scoffing at the Japs' grotesque habit of bathing every day... gross

Well on a ship you certainly can't wash yourself every day. And even in Europe, there was a lack of running water to wash yourself as often as you wanted. Japan has tons of rivers everywhere and is one of the richest country in terms of river water - and you can add onsen (hot springs) on top of that which provides free warm water to those living nearby. It's easy to criticize people of old, but they lived in very different conditions than we do, and Japanese had as much water as they wanted hence they developed that everyday washing culture.

Yet, Japan is actually importing water from other countries because they can't even meet their needs anymore in water supply - so the Japan model is not sustainable if you think about it this way. The consumption of water is among the highest worldwide (not just for bathing, but also washing clothes etc...) so it you applied the same model everywhere else you'd run out of water very fast in most countries.

[comicjk]

Water consumption by agriculture and industry dwarfs that for personal use. Stats for Japan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_...

[ekianjo]

> Water consumption by agriculture and industry dwarfs that for personal use.

Yeah, but Japan does not need to make their own crops. It's very much a policy that can debated. Surfaces for agriculture in Japan are very well, mainly composed of small-time farmers, and that kind of activity only exists because it's heavily subsidized by the government, and the country applies huge tariffs and trade protections to prevent importing food from other countries around (at the expense of Japanese taxpayers and consumers).

[seanmcdirmid]

Neglecting your domestic agriculture industry kind of sucks if war comes around or some other problem with imports arises, since it takes awhile to regrow your capacity to replace imports (and everyone starves in the meantime).

Food security is worth some subsidies, at least, just as a back up in case there is a problem with trade.

[ekianjo]

> Neglecting your domestic agriculture industry kind of sucks if war comes around or some other problem with imports arises,

If war comes around, ANYWAY a country like Japan will be f*ed to sustain its agriculture, with no access to commodities from outside and energy resources like petrol, fertilizers and so on. It is in the best interest of countries like Japan to sustain peace with neighboring countries and have strong trade ties with multiple partners so that a crisis with a single one would not cut off their supplies entirely.

> Food security is worth some subsidies, at least, just as a back up in case there is a problem with trade.

I disagree, because the cost of closing your borders is way, way higher than embracing global trade and benefiting from commodities that can be produced more efficiently and cheaply in other countries, even in the remote case of conflict. And if at all, this should be a choice made by the consumer, not by the government.

[m_mueller]

Japan and Germany are mainly in such a position because they lost a war - their territory would look very different otherwise. That doesn't mean that in (currently still very hypothetical) case of war, they wouldn't try to gain us much territory as quickly as possible - it would basically be a necessity. On the other hand, (potential) nuclear warfare has pretty much changed the game. It seems to me 'warfare' between industrialized nations is now everything about cold wars and alliances with nuclear capable countries. In case of Japan, food will never be a problem as long as they keep being allied to the US.

[seanmcdirmid]

> because the cost of closing your borders is way, way higher than embracing global trade and benefiting from commodities

You can keep your borders open while still maintaining some essential capacities...like GROWING FOOD. Sure, you can import, but its up there with weapon/defense production in what you probably shouldn't outsource completely to your potential enemies or allies who are further away than your enemies (China...cough...).

[a8da6b0c91d]

The whole "europeans were dirty" thing is apocryphal. European towns were loaded with heated public baths that got plenty of use, just like in Asia.

There was a phenomenon that the public baths became associated with the spread of plague and syphilis when those diseases reached Europe (because they were associated) and usage declined. This has somehow done whisper-down-the-lane into the idea that Europeans were filthy.

[enscr]

If you remove your shoes outside and walk barefoot, you're just sharing the sweat, dirt & germs of your foot with everyone else at home & guests. You'll probably take that to bed with you and sometimes sleep on it. If you must leave your shoes outside, wear an 'inside-only' slippers.

[silencio]

I take my shoes off right after I walk in the door of my apartment. It's not for cleanliness or anything as much as it is just I like fuzzy squishy slippers compared to whatever shoes I may have been wearing that day that need to be aired or dried out or whatever they need.

Barefoot or not your feet are dirty, the shoes are a different kind of dirty, and there's other stuff on the floor too (like in my instance, I really need to get a roomba because my cat sheds all over the place). So whatever.

I'm pretty amazed guests will take their shoes off because everyone that lives here does, like this is what happened when a whole bunch of people came over to my place after my wedding: https://www.flickr.com/photos/chix0r/13618218504/

[colin_jack]

You keep your socks on so that's not really an issue. I personally don't let anyone wear shoes in our house, I don't know what they've stepped on so I don't want them dragging anything over the floors and carpets.

[enscr]

Socks doesn't fix the problem completely. Unfortunately, visitors don't like being told that they can keep the socks on while walking on the carpet, but if they are to sit on the bed or put the feet up on the couch, they should take it off.

Don't even feel like discussing how clean are fresh are everyone's socks.

[colin_jack]

I wouldn't tell them to ever take their socks off, the only rule in our house is no shoes in the house.

Agree socks might not be 100% clean but you have to draw the line somewhere, and the bottom of a sock is bound to be cleaner than the bottom of a shoe.

[frik]

Just provide your guests slippers or house shoes.

In central Europe it's common to have a special room called checkroom/garderobe next to your main door where you store several pairs of guest slippers.

[kiba]

Never met any Americans/westerners/etc who wear shoes in the house. They all walk barefoot.

[veidr]

Yes, the overwhelming majority of Americans in the USA do wear shoes in the house. I myself did it too, until age 19 (when I moved to Japan).

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Consumer/story?id=5177409

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/18ekqf/as_a_canad...

http://www.quora.com/Do-real-Americans-wear-shoes-indoors-as...

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101011193926A...

[slyall]

It is actually a really strange thing. There seems to be pockets of people in various countries that either wear shoes inside or not but can't imagine doing the opposite and assumes everybody in their city/state/country is like them.

Interesting point: You also never see people on TV shows and movies taking their shoes off when they go to a house but I imagine this might be mainly due to the show not wanting to break up the action.

[bch]

Immediately thought of Mr Rogers[0][1].

[0] http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Rogers%27_Neighborhood...

[1] http://photomatt7.wordpress.com/2011/10/07/mr-rogers-was-a-g...

[pedrosorio]

The question is: do you often see people taking their shoes off when they go to a house on Japanese TV shows and movies?

[veidr]

Yes, you do. It would be weird enough not to that it would jar the suspension of disbelief.

[StavrosK]

In Greek shows, everyone wears their shoes in the house, even though nobody in Greece actually does. We've accepted it as "one of the things they do on TV", but every Greek home has a bunch of slippers you can wear near the door.

[craigching]

That is amazing to me. In Minneapolis, everyone requires you to remove shoes before entering the house proper. Maybe it's the snow ... of which we are currently in the process of getting about 12" tonight :-/

[llllllllllll]

Yeah, grew up in Minneapolis and most everyone removes their shoes, especially during the winter as it would create a complete mess if you didn't.

During the rest of the year, it depends a little bit on the residence. I never cared if someone kept their shoes on in the junky apartments I lived in during college, but if it were my parent's well-kept house for example, I'd consider it rude to keep them on.

[Pyrodogg]

Ditto. Even though I'm renting I have two runners so that I can absolutely cover the floor from the door to the coat closet. The boots (and shoes) don't leave the rug.

One of my friends has such high carpet and a close to the floor door that they can't have a rug immediately inside their unit. They contrived a mini parkour course to safely enter. You'd have to hop from the common hallway to a rug 2ft in and then to another one 2ft further, all in the name of etiquette and not wearing shoes "inside".

[ghaff]

Don't know where you live but removing shoes is uncommon practice in my experience.

[madsushi]

Especially in rural areas, where I would say 9 out of 10 people leave their shoes on inside the house.

[sjtrny]

Really? Wouldn't it make even more sense to remove shoes if you live in a rural area where you are more likely to be stomping through mud.

[po]

really... I don't get it now but it made sense when I went to visit my family.

Now that I live in Japan, I can say that it is really weird when I go back home. I usually take my shoes off and every now and then I step in a wet foot print from someone who just came inside from the rain and really wonder why it is like that.

[rikacomet]

In India, you buy separate rubber slippers/American beach slippers (2$) for the washroom, and a separate one for the house. We don't really stress our feet with closed shoes inside the house. No one's watching you anyway.

Only winters, is the in-house rubber slippers (not the washroom ones) are changed with warm slippers.

[enscr]

I've yet to visit a house in India where people have separate slippers for washroom & house. Strange.

[rikacomet]

The reason might be same as in the case of Japanese culture. Though its standard practice to excuse yourself, while entering a room or leaving it. You would meet a lot of people who just don't follow that.

Besides, you never know what you will learn next. Stay hungry :)

[Raphael]

Americans don't say "beach slippers". Sandals or flip flops.

[po]

A few years ago we had to call an ambulance for a medical emergency for a family member (in Tokyo). When the ambulance came, all three EMT workers dutifully slipped their shoes off as they came in. They all had old sneakers so loosely laced that they were basically slippers.

Slip-on shoes are basically a must-have thing in Japan.

[joyeuse6701]

Mmm, reading that now actually. I'm enjoying it, and I could easily see that if I was younger I'd be enamored by it.